Attacking Monsters with an Avatar While Being AFK.

[Yinnyth]

With the car feature you make a choice to push the peddle to the floor to exceed the speed limit. Pressing the gas peddle is a conscious choice. With the summoner you just call the pet go AFK and "THE GAME" pet decides to defend you.

And then you happen to go afk in the same spot day after day. You happen to get a stack of geodes in a week, and happen to sell them on the AH for a regal crapload (3.7x as large as a normal crapload (it's metric)) of gil, and happen to go back to going afk in the same spot some more. That's why this is being handled by the STF and not just the GMs. They're being more careful than they should be about this so they only get repeat offenders.

Almost no one goes afk where they'll get aggro unless they're in a HUGE hurry (house burning down), or they're botting. If you're in a HUGE hurry, you probably won't do it more than once in the same area.

If you want to stay completely safe though, follow this basic rule: If you wouldn't afk there without a pet, don't afk there with a pet. How many people get killed by going afk and getting chigoe aggro in Grauberg_S? In the last year, I'd say it's lower than 0.000000001% of the population of the game. So if you banned 100% of people who couldn't respond to a tell by a GM for 10 minutes while their pet kills chigoes, you would only wrongly ban about one millionth of a person.

Also, pulling NM to MPK people is intent on greefing others. If you're trying to escape a NM and accidentally happen to accidentally die running etc. it's not the same.

Also, changing your job to SMN, going out to Grauberg_S, finding an open chigoe spot, summoning your avatar and going afk at that location for 12 hours is intent on engaging in absentee play. Both are against the rules. The tricky part is proving intent.

I find it strange how you think GMs would search for intent when it comes to MPK, but would completely skip that step when it comes to botting.

I don't agree that they should be allowed to do this. I do think it's stupid that they ban people for this when there are other bigger issues they DO ignore. Seriously, If it's broken then SE should fix it.

"Bigger issues" is subjective, but I'm willing to listen. Which issues should the STF and GMs be focusing on?

[Sarick]

So you're still missing the point. Summoning your avatar and then going AFK is a chosen act.
Pressing on the gas is a chosen act.
Pressing a button is a chosen act.

If you can't see that using "summon avatar" and going AFK doesn't fit in the same category as somone who uses an infinite-loop macro by pressing "one button" ... then this whole issue is lost on you.

Frankly, I could care less. The issue is not that the avatar is auto-attacking . The issue is that the SMN is deliberately putting himself in a position where abusing that feature allows him to auto-claim monsters without actively playing the game.

There is a difference between using a feature, and abusing it. These Summoners were abusing it, which brought forth the undesirable wrath of SE.

Again, you're using the argument that "the game allows it, so it should be ok" but the game also allows players to leech EXP, which was something Duzell pointed out earlier.

The difference is that the prior interfered with other players while the latter does not.

You're the one missing the point. I already stated that I don't think it's in the best interest to not FIX this problem. I also pointed out that they have other issues that are clearly being ignored. The previous post about cars breaking laws isn't the same. These players are just standing around and gaining exp/etc while afk because a broken game feature. I did point out that others are doing the same thing using other means and no action is taken.

"auto-claim monsters without actively playing the game".

Their resolve is laughable when they refuse to do anything about other issues that disrupt the game. You know the ones that aren't because broken in game features. These interfere with the economy of hard working players who farm while not afk.

Judging by my quotes being butchered (partial quotes) I don't think half of what I've wrote even equals what people think I wrote.

[Sarick]

"Bigger issues" is subjective, but I'm willing to listen. Which issues should the STF and GMs be focusing on?

I find it strange how you think GMs would search for intent when it comes to MPK, but would completely skip that step when it comes to botting.

Automated message: Thank you for your interest, we're aware this issue exist. A representative can't help you. Please visit www.uselessreportsite.com and spend your valuable time writing something no one will ever read or investigate.

Bot farming and this issue are identical except this one uses in game exploits. I'm just like the others ranting on this topic. I don't care how people play as long as they don't disrupt the game by screwing over others. If I'm busting my arse to get a few avatarites and see people automated flood farming it's no different then what these snm are doing. That's why.

[Yinnyth]

Your hyperlink turns up nothing. I'm sorry, do you have some real complaint about the STF or GMs, you know... maybe something that's rampant in the game that they aren't doing enough to fix? (I'm totally setting you up for an easy one here, I'll be really disappointed if you don't get it.... but I'm also prepared for it...) Or are you just upset that they took away your breeze geode farm?

If I'm busting my arse to get a few avatarites and see people automated flood farming it's no different then what these snm are doing.

You realize, they aren't botting those geodes for their own trials, right? (you also realize those chigoes shouldn't be dropping __ite because they're not a high enough level...?) What's the average playtime of an FFXI player? Let's be generous and say it's 6 hours a day. 6 hours a day they get to bust their arse and sell their spoils for gil. Now let's compare that to the average bot. 24 hours a day they get to relax and do whatever they want and sell 4x the spoils for gil. Do you know what that does to the market?

as they don't disrupt the game by screwing over others

I'm glad you're not one of the people being screwed over by it, but that doesn't mean people AREN'T being screwed over by this very mechanic which you are ambivilent towards. What do you make your gil off of? Now imagine a bot can make 4x as much per day off it as you, and they don't even have to be at their keyboard.

IMO, GMs should hunt down absentee players as much as police hunt down counterfeiters.

[Llana_Virren]

These players are just standing around and gaining exp/etc while afk because a broken game feature. I did point out that others are doing the same thing using other means and no action is taken.

Their resolve is laughable when they refuse to do anything about other issues that disrupt the game. You know the ones that aren't because broken in game features. These interfere with the economy of hard working players who farm while not afk.

Judging by my quotes being butchered (partial quotes) I don't think half of what I've wrote even equals what people think I wrote.

Two things:

1. Your quotes are not being butchered. There's a difference between cutting out monologue to repeat only the core content of a quote (which I have done), and changing what a person said. Your message remained the same in every quotation.

2. You still don't understand. It's not farming while AFK that SE is freaking out about. It is farming specific mobs which other players need to farm, while AFK.

Again, if you look at the last 10 years of FFXI, the only time SE freaks out about this is when there is a significant impact on players (ie. interference). AFK leech parties do not do this (as of now) because no one bothers camping where they do; no one bothers fighting the mobs they do; and no one loses claim on monsters in the area they are fighting.

You may not see a difference, but SE does, and for as long as I've been playing FFXI, I can say that they've got it right on this one.

Oh, and on the touchy subject of leech parties, let me say this:

Just because someone leveled a job without doing leech parties, does not mean that person "had it harder." Unless you can recall the days where "EXP Chain #6!" was more rare than a JP party inviting an NA player, then you don't know what real EXP grinding is. Honestly, with the level cap pushed to 99, and the amount of EXP required, Abyssea became a necessity in order to allow players (both new, and old on a new job) to be able to quickly get to the meat and potatoes of the game.

[Karbuncle]

I can attest to the STF never reading anything sent to them. I've reported one fella on their website on 41 Separate occasions within the span of 3 months for blatant use of Movement Tools, and he's still zipping around the world, in towns, etc etc in plain sight. Also GM'd him a couple times and got the same tired "We don't really get paid enough to care anymore" response.

Honestly just reported this guy to see if the GM's even cared anymore. Turns out they don't. So you're really wasting your time caring about 3PT uses in this game. Unless of course its inside Nyzul Isle.

Frankly I'm surprised they're devoting so much attention to this issue. I mean, I'm aware its more or less abusing game mechanics in order to obtain something more easily, But it just seems like such a small issue. But oh well...

[Sarick]

I can attest to the STF never reading anything sent to them. I've reported one fella on their website on 41 Separate occasions within the span of 3 months for blatant use of Movement Tools, and he's still zipping around the world, in towns, etc etc in plain sight. Also GM'd him a couple times and got the same tired "We don't really get paid enough to care anymore" response.

Honestly just reported this guy to see if the GM's even cared anymore. Turns out they don't. So you're really wasting your time caring about 3PT uses in this game. Unless of course its inside Nyzul Isle.

Frankly I'm surprised they're devoting so much attention to this issue. I mean, I'm aware its more or less abusing game mechanics in order to obtain something more easily, But it just seems like such a small issue. But oh well...

Guys this is what I'm talking about /\ above. I don't care what you think I'm writing because "I DON'T SUPPORT" what you think I'm supporting. Geodes or not when your doing something and a group of the same player comes in like a swarm of locust then go's afk clearing a zone somethings broken. Like I said the situation is laughable that they choose to do something about an in game design issue yet they refuse to investigate RMT like activities. The delusion that anyone cares dictates how clueless some people are.

This is the cold hard reality here. I saw the players ranting about legitimate use of BST in dynamis. I'll tell you what happened beastmaster got treasure hunter nerfed. These issues wouldn't have caught the attention of the developers if people didn't complain. This is why I laugh so hard when players cheer about little things like this. The BST and SNM where a result of player complaints for legitimate in game working as intended features until the developers decided otherwise. They decided otherwise because people complained.

You see where I'm going here? The people who complained got what they wanted because they was upset about how players abused the system. The locust AFK farming players aren't helping the system in fact they're worse then the SNM problem. This is where I've been all along. I'm not defending anyone for for exploiting the design flaw. I'm saying they shouldn't punish players for doing this if they do nothing about a bigger problem. Both the SNM and the AFK farming are in essence the same except one isn't ignored.

As for the broken link, it's working as intended. It's a pun to a bad joke. I thought the url address would've been enough to make that obvious. I guessed wrong because most people arguing with me still don't know where my position is.

For the record I don't care about duel boxers and most third party tool players. I do care if people do stuff that disrupts the gamelay of others. If someone is going to farm gil legitimately fine let there be completion. It's the AFK players competing against active players that sour the milk.

[Yinnyth]

I'm saying they shouldn't punish players for doing this if they do nothing about a bigger problem.

They don't do "nothing" about bigger problems in the game. They're just incompetent when it comes to getting results. You seem to assume they'll somehow be magically more effective at banning cheaters there than they are at banning cheaters elsewhere. How many people have been banned so far for afk chigoe killing?

"Oh, but they could be spending their resources to do a better job at getting the REAL criminals!" Everything has a point of diminishing returns. Sometimes it doesn't matter how many people you have standing around that soup pot. It doesn't make it done faster or taste better to have 500 chefs there.

The same thing could be said about cops: "Why are you catching jaywalkers when there's still unsolved murders?!" Against the law is against the law. True, most people get away with jaywalking. But if a street suddenly became absolutely crowded with people who can't seem to stay on the sidewalk, cops would have to start cracking down on jaywalking, wouldn't they?

Just because some people get away with felonies doesn't mean that cops should completely stop enforcing the law when it comes to misdemeanors.

[Llana_Virren]

Yinnyth you are a sage to these forums.

Also, let's avoid exaggerations: AFK alliances don't "swarm in like locusts and clear a zone" simply because they're AFK... they're in ONE spot! Locusts swarm and move and leech off of everything until nothing's left, and then move on to the next spot... the locust analogy is more accurate ToAU EXP "camps".

But of course, if "I can't do X, no one else should be able to do Y."

[Sarick]

They don't do "nothing" about bigger problems in the game. They're just incompetent when it comes to getting results.

Just because some people get away with felonies doesn't mean that cops should completely stop enforcing the law when it comes to misdemeanors.

That's not even close to right. Little is done unless enough people complain in the first place. You seriously sound like nothings wrong to begin with. It's very obvious if a reasonable effort is made to enforce policies. In this case "If it looks like a duck, smells like a duck and quacks like a duck. Guess what! You guessed it's probably a duck!"

So, don't play oblivious onlooker you know exactly whats going on here.