[dev1107] Sange Update - Why?

[Mac1]

Can some one please enlighten me to how changing this improves Ninja as a job in anyway? You are taking a useless merit group and just allowing it to be useless more often.

Throwing tools have not been relevant for Ninja since the job was released and tested on anything important such as the five Sky gods back pre-CoP expansion. The concept of updating a completely failed system this late in the game in hopes to keep the job up to par in the merit category is completely absurd.

In the past two updates Ninja has received they got a decreased timer for Tonko spells and now this, really? It is almost like there is no known direction for where you want to take this job so you decided to just throw in useless add-ons so you can at least say you are making an effort.

Why not take a stance on what the job should be used for and actually apply it in game? With the introduction of all these new notorious monsters that revolve around area-of-effect damage for both weapon skills and normal hits you are obviously saying you don't want it used as a blink tank unless you are fighting outdated weak mobs because just to survive those fights I need to constantly be swapping in -Damage Taken gear (and do I need to even mention the total irrelevance of evasion gear now?). Then Even with the use of constant Fanatic's Drinks with its inability to keep up with any damage dealer of similar skill and gear level on another job unless the small chance that you can full time Innin (which even with that you still don't have a chance at keeping up with top tier players). How do you plan for a Ninja to even maintain hate or just put up equivalent numbers to make them worthy of buffing with a bard or corsair?

So, you destroyed Ninja's survivability against anything relevant, you destroyed its damage output by having to account for these insane defense bonuses on new notorious monsters (and even for older stuff due to huge damage output of Samurais, Monks, Warriors, and Dark Knights), you continue to introduce updates for Ninjutsu which unless you give me 60 more inventory slots I'm not going to have enough room for the gear required to make that useful (besides for proc-ing), and now I can waste the four merits I have in Ninja Tool Expertise and put them into Sange in order to use a job ability to do damage that will probably result in less overall damage then I would be doing from just letting my delay cycle run between hits?

Bravo, and thanks for the useless update once again.

[vixin]

woot i wont lose shadows fork yes!! "i'm really excited this update ^^"

[Darwena]

Agree 100% with the OP here. Vixin... you think you smater than Wish12oz... It's not the case. You're post never help me improve my skill as Ninja in the game. Wish12oz at least, even if we don't have always the same opinion, help a lot of Ninja (new and vets) with some good arguments, hints and some games mechanics.

About Sange... this is the worst useless merits point since the level cap is removed (and even before). I was a throwing star Ninja back in time. Now, this is just a waste of time, money and space in inventory. Why?

Here few point:

1- To make it effective, you need shurikens, a lot of Shurikens. Here the Shurikens FFXI have to offer:

Stack: 99. Best effing Shuriken of the game! Only problem: you can't craft them and it a "BCNM" from one of 3 Quest in Aht Urgan area. 1 drop per qst and meed a min of 3. Since lot of ppl already throw rock at Wish12oz when he said just make a WHM mule or some friend for making an empyrean... Neway even if you do it 20 time per day... will take a week to get "ONE" Stack.

Iga Shuriken: [Ammo] All Races
DPS: 2500 DMG:80 Delay:192 Ranged Accuracy+10
LV 80 NIN

Stack: 12. 2nd best DMG output. Can be craftable. problem: Stack of 12. That mean 2 Sange and you throw already a stack, so you need to bring a couple of stack (and not mention Throwing gear huh?!?). So not effective.


Stack: 12. Same probleme as Iga.


Stack: 99. The only one that worth bringing. But you gimp you're DMG compare to simply melee mob.

The only thing Sange could be usefull is for TP build and event in that case, With all gear we already need to bring, Melee stay the best option. (I won't prove my point, Wish12oz did it enough time in most post where Throwing is discuted).

[Asymptotic]

If you didn't notice, they updated every single merit job ability with recast timer varying per merit, just as they announced they would do months ago. They even used Sange as an example for their plans with merit job ability adjustments, and you're just complaining about it now?

[Bulrogg]

you're just complaining about it now?

I know right.... some of them even said they would quit if SquareEnix listened to ninjas that aren't opposed to different styles of playing and adjusted/updated throwing/sange. But they're still troll'n...


at any rate... I was a little un-impressed with the adjustment. I think they could have added some RACC/RATK/TP gain bonus for each extra merit and capping the ability would remove the shadow penalty.

That being said. Yes, Sange is useless post 75 update other than a means to gain some TP before engaging a mob. But I am hoping SE gets around to fixing the shuriken problems and possibly some nifty new abilities/traits to play with.

It would be pretty cool to have range attacks proc like kick attacks during normal auto-attacks. Where shurkines would be consumed like virtue/magus stones to increase damage.

[Asymptotic]

If they wanted it to be used, they should have given it some sort of enfeebling effect.

Sange (Recast 5mins)
Consumes shadow images to deliver a ranged attack with current throwing ammo. May reset target's TP to 0.
Additional merits: Increase likelihood of resetting target's TP.

[scaevola]

If they wanted it to be used, they should have given it some sort of enfeebling effect.

Sange (Recast 5mins)
Consumes shadow images to deliver a ranged attack with current throwing ammo. May reset target's TP to 0.
Additional merits: Increase likelihood of resetting target's TP.

Was kind of hoping new Sange would apply a debuff to improve potency of NIN enfeebles, so that 5/5+max hits from Sange would make a NIN enfeeble as strong as a top-tier RDM debuff without saboteur. It wouldn't be enough to make me want to merit Sange, of course, but it would at least give NIN the ability to actually get something interesting out of its merit choices.

RDMs would complain but it's not like it really matters whether two relatively weak jobs are generally comparable in a fairly unimportant area.

[Nala]

Not that it matters but didnt they add a new shuriken type last update?

[vixin]

They did but the stack size is same as fuma and material's to make them are up in price at the moment. From what SE has done in the past maybe they are restricting the amount of new shurikens being released opposed to letting us have them all at once. If not we got trolled by se sange is nice tp gain shoudl all hits land, "looking on the bright side".

[Darwena]

They did but the stack size is same as fuma and material's to make them are up in price at the moment. From what SE has done in the past maybe they are restricting the amount of new shurikens being released opposed to letting us have them all at once. If not we got trolled by se sange is nice tp gain shoudl all hits land, "looking on the bright side".

Where you see a good TP Gain? Simply hit with Katana, with haste/DA/DW grant you a TP gain pretty fast. Sange on the otherside need too much gear/space to be just usefull (unless you use Lv48 one, but what the point of gimping you're DPS just to use sange). Also I wont go through the detail of it, some ppl here proved enough than Katana > Shuriken.

Not mention making new Shuriken is just a waste of materials and gils (1 Palladian Brass sheet is kinda pricey for 3 Shuriken (12 if you reeeeealy lucky on HQ+3).

Also Throwing Shuriken, even with sange, you wont make the DMG you could get from simply hitting with Katana. This is sad, but Shuriken throwing aren't the smartest way to play Ninja unless you have billion gils to throw, and if it the case: buy Currency and build Kikoku instead and upgrade it to 90/95, you will gain a great weapon and wont make ppl laughing at you.