[dev1107] Sange Update - Why?

[vixin]

i think above all should shurikens become as good as they were in the past people are weiry of the money they would be investing i think above all. If that is the case most mats im sure would be easy to obtain and finding a cafter to assist wwhould not be hard.

[wish12oz]

Looking at the road map, ranged attack delay adjustments are coming and cheers to SE for bringing them.

I'm glad SE isn't pandering to the "only one way to skin a coeurl" school of thought, allowing for more flexibility of the job.

Unfortunately for you, SE does think there's only one way to skin a coeurl as they've announced they're fundamentally changing the way ranged attacks work, which is what I've said needs to be done all along to make them even remotely useful. As for if it proves to be successful or a waste of time, we will have to wait and see, but I'd bet money on it still not being useful and not changing anything about the flexibility of NIN since SE has repeatedly shown they know nothing of the mechanics of their game. The "relic shuriken" is just the most recent example of this.

Again, you are assuming everyone is always /war.

Good players are always subbing warrior on NIN, unless they're just moving their character around a bit to do random stuff and are subbing BLM for warp.

People choose to utilize other subs for various reasons. While /war is best in terms of DMG and tanking it is not always what is /sub'd at the time. So when the person is not /war they use the tactics they have available.

Want me to do math to show Sange shouldn't be used even when you don't have provoke? Look at my previous post, and wherever you see "Provoke" switch that to "Kurayami: Ni" Casting Kurayami: Ni will do the same thing Provoke would, and bring the mob back to you so you can melee and do more damage than some gimp ranged JA you seem to be so obsessed with.

People choose to utilize other subs for various reasons. While /war is best in terms of DMG and tanking it is not always what is /sub'd at the time. So when the person is not /war they use the tactics they have available. This leads to SE updating things like Sange and Ranged Attack Delay (on roadmap for Autumn 2012).

People using subjobs other than /WAR leads to SE making changes to the game mechanics for ranged attacks. Is this seriously what you just said? If anything is making SE change the mechanics of ranged attacks it's everything I've ever posted about them and why they're so horrible combined with the gimps crying because they want to waste gil and lose more inventory.

I did not intend to imply that Sange is a great tool for hate generation in regards to tanking big events. I said "a great use for Sange is at the moment of a mobs repositioning."

And I just proved it's not useful for that either, so stop trying to say it is now.

In fact, I've said in the numerous threads we're not discussing Ninja tanking events. We are talking about making use of tactics that are available to a job when you are in conditions that are less than optimal. It appears as if you and 12ozmouse are just trying to complicate things.

It's funny how the only thing you have to fall back on is name calling. But seriously, I proved Sange isn't useful for anything at all. You can stop trying to say it is now.

We have clearly agreed that /war is the best DMG and tanking /sub for Ninja.
Now, the rest of us would like to continue to discuss the updates SE has is sight for Sange and the 2012 road map. Anything else you and 12oz have to say will only be regarded as trying to provoke a problematic response.

The way I see it, you're the only one here resorting to name calling and trying to start a fight. All I've done up to this point is respond with answers about game mechanics and how they work. If you think that's trying to start a fight you have some serious issues. Well, I guess my "I like detectives" comment could maybe be seen as mean spirited, but that doesn't change the fact that I was saying the truth about how poor someones ability to convey their thoughts is, and speaking the truth isn't the wrong thing to do, ever.

i think above all should shurikens become as good as they were in the past people are weiry of the money they would be investing i think above all. If that is the case most mats im sure would be easy to obtain and finding a cafter to assist wwhould not be hard.

When you say shurikens were good at some point, I can only pray you mean at low levels, because they were never good at any other point in time.

You're wrong, people don't care about gil, gil is easy to make, the problem with throwing should it be worth using is the new gear set you will have to carry around. A good NIN already has a few TP sets, a few WS sets, PDT set, MDT set, maybe an evasion set, tools, tool bags, proc weapons, foods, echo drops, other meds. Adding a quiver of shurikens, the stack of shurikens you're currently using, and a set of ranged attack gear for when you easily cap acc, and a set for when you need lots of acc is going to be a major hindrance to good ninjas, and is the main reason shurikens actually need to do MORE damage than katanas to be useful. If they do the same amount of damage, or less damage, it won't be worth the gil or inventory to have them around.

What makes you think any new shurikens SE adds will even be remotely reasonable to acquire? Is it their track record for adding shurikens that are reasonable acquire? lol....

[Bulrogg]

There is a presence of players [EU/JP/NA] that choose to use sange and throwing as needed; cheers to SE for continuing to update/adjust that aspect of the job.

I look forward to autumn to see what adjustments are in sight for ranged attack delay. I'm really hoping their only targets aren't RNG and COR.

I'd like to see an adjustment if possible to make Sange activate like Quickdraw.

[wish12oz]

There is a presence of players [EU/JP/NA] that choose to use sange and throwing as needed;

Originally I was going to write something else, but seriously, name me 1 instance, ONE, where throwing is at all useful. Can you even name one?

I also require you to PROVE it is useful in whatever instance you name.

[vixin]

nice mile long post 12oz but one thing, You are Wrong remember that kido.

and for that one instance where "Throwing" is useful you remember Dark Ixion right?

[Darwena]

nice mile long post 12oz but one thing, You are Wrong remember that kido.

and for that one instance where "Throwing" is useful you remember Dark Ixion right?

Why throwing will be better than melee on Ixion? He said prove it... you not proving me I should bring Shuriken to beat that NM over melee him...

[vixin]

he asked when was throwing ever useful i did state a reason if your pre aby which it sounds like let me speed you up to date only way you can ever claim is ixion is utlizing throwing skills to land stygi ash on him i think that plays a huge part there, not to mention back at lv 75 when using winds on sky gods.

[SpankWustler]

and for that one instance where "Throwing" is useful you remember Dark Ixion right?

Because the damage dealt by the thrown Stygian Ash didn't matter, pretty much anyone on any job using something to aid with accuracy worked. During that dark and miserable time when I was fighting Dark Ixion every day, I remember some dude playing two Preludes on himself and claiming the awful thing with his Bard.

Certain jobs worked better, Ranger rather than Ninja probably worked best, but this answer is obviously out of the Ninja-related context of Wish's question. Claiming Dark Ixion was more of a Ranged Accuracy check than a Throwing Check, unless an individual had never skilled Throwing up at all.

This is one step above saying that throwing matters because it's a great way to make a monster suprisingly mad from a very long distance, when it doesn't even matter if the attack lands or not.

While we're giving clever answers, spooking Dark Ixion required no Throwing Skill or Ranged Accuracy whatsoever, and doing that to spite another group was usually more fun than fighting the thing.

[vixin]

While we're giving clever answers, spooking Dark Ixion required no Throwing Skill or Ranged Accuracy whatsoever, and doing that to spite another group was usually more fun than fighting the thing.

gonna need some proof becasue nothing you said has any credit untill you do so.

[SpankWustler]

gonna need some proof becasue nothing you said has any credit untill you do so.

Sorry. English probably isn't your first language so I guess my weird sarcasm doesn't make a lot of sense. I'll explain.

The last paragraph refers to simply walking up to Dark Ixion, prompting the monster to run away and vanish, meaning that no one gets to fight it for a little while. A useful tactic when you wanted no one to fight Dark Ixion for a little while because it's funnier that way.

This is an entirely separate process from claiming Dark Ixion and fighting it, the process to which every paragraph above the last referred. To be very brief, the last paragraph was a joke and "spook" can mean to frighten a horse.

Does that make more sense?