[dev1107] Sange Update - Why?

[Bulrogg]

We're not saying "it's better than melee", we've coincided to that over a 'dozen times across several different NIN Threads'. What we are saying is in some situations, because it is a tactic given to the job and when other conditions are not optimal we use it as is, when needed. We have listed those situations and have been rudely told that we are wrong for not having more friends, a proper event linkshell, WHM mules in tow and all the best gear the game has to offer.

SE is continuing to update Sange and ranged attack delay; cheers to them. Throwing will never surpass melee DMG, but that is no reason to forgo adjusting tactics available to a job. Look at what they did with the circle abilities; I have no doubt SE can make Sange/Throwing useful if they so choose.

Again, let me be clear, we are not arguing math. We are arguing that not everyone in this game has access to: more friends, a proper event linkshell, WHM mules in tow and all the best gear the game has to offer. So we work with what we have.

If you had a fish to cook and only two sticks would you eat raw fish and complain that those using the sticks to start a fire are doing it wrong because they don't have a flint-rock and fire starter kit, a lighter and some kindling, a Coleman grill, or a personal chef to do it for you? Because that's what it sounds like when the "you are wrong" sermon begins that has also been preached 'over a dozen times across several different NIN Threads'.

[Bulrogg]

if the ranged attack delays allows you to attack while throwing, It could drastically change NIN, Otherwise it will be ultimately pretty useless still.

I am not familiar with COR, but does Quickdraw allow for continued melee during the shot? I wasn't sure if Sange was changed to mimic Quickdraw how that would effect the ability. At any rate it would seem like a plus as there would be no delay from having to make a ranged attack and just using Sange.

Assuming that the upcoming ranged attack delay adjustment are on the after side of the ranged attack, perhaps an ability similar to the rapid shot trait that would causes the ranged attacks to fire instantly would benefit the ability/skill. Or even a merit something like Desperate Blows but for /ra only.

[Darwena]

Which situation? beside pulling a mob (and voke work better and faster btw)... Stop being so stuborn and maybe you wil start getting better gear and will be able to play NIN more often than playing with ninja star...

NIN is the easiest job to gear. Iga set +1 (and even +2) can be done solo/duo easily. Magian Katana are all soloable and you can even make friend in the process. Iga necklace can be soloed... now Supranomimi, Raja? Soloed by any BST. You want to play NIN? well the least you can do is to gear it properly.

You don't have any friend? I'm sorry to hear that, but maybe consider leveling BST/DNC and able to enjoy solo play better?

Note: I want Dual Wield Merit!!!

[Bulrogg]

You nor any other cult-ninja is in a position to tell anyone how to play or enjoy the game. It's as much our right to play our style as it is as much yours to do your own thing.

People use Sange and Throwing; get over it. Stop being so problematic and maybe you can make some coherent post and get your DW merits.

On that note- I am certain that Dual Wield merits will upset a lot of folks that aren't ninja. So unless it ends up in an 'Other' category, good luck with that.

Assuming that the upcoming ranged attack delay adjustment are on the after side of the ranged attack, perhaps an ability similar to the rapid shot trait that would causes the ranged attacks to fire instantly would benefit the ability/skill. Or even a merit something like Desperate Blows but for /ra only.

[wish12oz]

What we are saying is in some situations, because it is a tactic given to the job and when other conditions are not optimal we use it as is, when needed.

To bad those situations DO NOT EXIST.

We have listed those situations

You have yet to list 1 situation where doing a ranged attack is at all useful.
Outside of pulling a lame NM you shouldn't be fighting anyway.

Again, let me be clear, we are not arguing math. We are arguing that not everyone in this game has access to: more friends, a proper event linkshell, WHM mules in tow and all the best gear the game has to offer. So we work with what we have.

The gimpest pink ninja is the world with a swift belt and AH katanas and no buffs will do more damage than the best throwing NIN in the game could hope to achieve with the best possible throwing sets ever, minuets and chaos roll to cap attack, whatever that snapshot roll is, the best food and the relic shuriken mentioned earlier.

Do I really need to do this math too? I already proved gimp katanas and a decent melee set in the worst condition beats the relic shuriken in the most favorable condition, and it does DOUBLE the damage. Maybe I should do this comparison again and use real stats for available shurikens and gear so you can see that the real difference is about 5x not 2x.

For the 20th time:
There is no point in the game after lvl 72 where throwing could ever be considered even remotely useful. AH katanas and pink gear is better.

[Bulrogg]

At this point throwing is no where as useful as it used to be, but it clearly obvious SE has ranged attacks in their target for updates.

All we are trying to do is--

get a good conversation going on the matter; perhaps they will take our suggestions on board... or at least respond.

Feel free to keep insisting that it's useless and never going to be updated. But SE is already are updating Sange and by that alone you said if it happened you would quit the game. You even said I could quote you on that. It appears that you sir aren't true to your word. So you could at least quit being problematic in threads we are trying to hold conversations with Community Reps/Devs. You do not speak for them; let them tell us "it's not going to happen" and I'll stop offering suggestions how it could be improved upon....

and then [FOR the 20th time:] you can stop going around telling people they need more friends, better linkshells, all the best gear currently available in-game, how to spend our time, our dime and over all how to enjoy the game.

[Darwena]

Prove me where we are wrong. Ninja need melee upgrade, not a "pulling" upgrade. Ninja need better Merits than useless one we have now (San spell is a joke, I would rather merit and improve enfeebling Ni than the silly San spell...) Sange is completly useless. The only merits that worth is: Subtle Blow and Ninja Tools Expertise. Do those Merits improve in anyway our melee skill: NO!

Even Shuriken thrower, you will be melee 90% of the time (don't tell me you will stay away and throwing, throwing and trowing, I don't believe you have enough gils to do that). So Improving our melee skill via merit IS the solution to NIN gimp DMG compare to MNK, THF, WAR and SAM one (I probably miss some other like BLU but let focus melee).

[wish12oz]

and then [FOR the 20th time:] you can stop going around telling people they need more friends, better linkshells, all the best gear currently available in-game, how to spend our time, our dime and over all how to enjoy the game.

It's funny how I just said the worst pink ninja in the game with AH katanas will out damage the absolute best throwing ninja ever possible, and you still seem to think you need good stuff to melee.

The gimpest pink ninja is the world with a swift belt and AH katanas and no buffs will do more damage than the best throwing NIN in the game could hope to achieve with the best possible throwing sets ever, minuets and chaos roll to cap attack, whatever that snapshot roll is, the best food and the relic shuriken mentioned earlier.

And again, you can do whatever, but don't go around telling people stupid crap like "throwing is useful" when it's not useful, and we won't have a problem. You have yet to name ONE instance where throwing is AT ALL useful. You just stand on your high horse and claim it is, but have yet to offer ANY proof. Your denial and continued efforts to support throwing is only going to hurt you in the end when SE see's you saying throwing is good, and doesn't update throwing to be good, they update it to continue being complete trash. When that happens I'm going to gloat about it and make fun of you, and I can't wait.

EDIT::::

But SE is already are updating Sange and by that alone you said if it happened you would quit the game.

That sounds like something I would say, but it's part of an entire overhaul of merits, not just a sange update.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Why don't you just let people want what they want. Seriously!

Disagree fine, but you really don't need to reply to EVERY post telling them they're wrong.

[wish12oz]

Why don't you just let people want what they want. Seriously!

Disagree fine, but you really don't need to reply to EVERY post telling them they're wrong.

They reply to every post I make claiming throwing is useful, and offer no proof whatsoever, so ya, I do need to respond to them.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post309446
How they can look at this and think throwing is useful is just beyond me though. It takes an extra special form of headinthesand to be able to do that.