Dynamis Weakness Trigger Testing

[Yinnyth]

When you compare to say BRD main with 2 second cast time on Threnody and 24 second recast (NO HASTE/FASTCAST) When you add in Requiem and other BRD spells BRD has basically 30 chances per min to stagger. At a 5% rate a single BRD should on average stagger every 40 seconds.

I think you're confusing practical and actual casting times. It's rough getting 30 casts per minute even with chainspell or maxed nightingale because of animation delays and the annoying way the game only accepts one command every half second or so. Even spamming the fastest spells and assuming no obligation to any other task, you're probably looking at about 15 casts per minute.

You're also only looking at the DNC's native abilities. Most jobs which go /dnc to dynamis have native JAs of their own they can use which adds to the 7 JAs per minute, war and cor being the 2 best I can think of right now.

There's also a primary difference between JAs and spells: JAs have no casting time. You can do other stuff while waiting for JAs to recharge. You can't do squat while spamming threnodies.

Overall, magic is the most screwed of the 3 proc types right now. To be fair, balancing the procs is a tricky topic though. I'd do it by making it so JAs with a longer recast timer have an increased chance to proc, spells with a longer casting timer have an increased chance to proc, spells matching the day's current element have an increased chance to proc, AoE spells and WSs have a decreased chance to proc on anything besides the main target, WSs with a matching SC alignment to the current day have an increased chance to proc, and make skillchains and magic bursts have a chance to proc any mob. But that's just me rambling again.

[Nala]

as it stands aoe ws's and magic can not proc a mob unless it is claimed, when neo dream lands hit people were abusing nightmare mobs by mass aggro and FC/AE procing the whole lot, very effective way to farm even if you don't proc a few you're killing them much faster = faster respawns and as long as you have TH you should get some currency, any case moot point as it's nerfed.

[Rocinante]

Day 9
bst/nin, Easy Prey worm and hornet in Dynamis - Tavnazia
Waxing Crescent 12% - 18%

315 ninjutsu casts
Hydra mages - 3 triggers (accidentally aggressed a whole group, whoops)

Daytime - Worm - 5 triggers
Night - Hornet - 0 (ZERO!)
Midnight - stayed at hornet camp and did JA triggers
Daytime - Worm - 8 triggers
Night - Hornet - 4 triggers

Trigger rate 3.6%

First time ever in Dynamis Tavnazia, didn't go smoothly, but I got enough currency to make it worthwhile. But wow, didn't get weakness against a single hornet on the first 16:00 - 23:99 window. That was about 120 ninjutsu cast during the time frame. An anomaly occured in the last ~30 seconds of lightsday, where I apparently triggered weakness on a hornet with a melee hit.

Screenshots:
log
further back in the log
what a typical trigger looks like

The backlog screenshot shows the most recent action that I or my pet took against that hornet (a Katon:Ni cast), and I got in 3 attack rounds (Something like 15 seconds?) before the trigger. Then in that last shot, a typical trigger is shown (a Hyoton: Ni cast), where you get the weakness message a moment or so *before* whatever the action that caused it. So even if in the anomaly screenshot, my Katon:Ni did cause the trigger and not simple melee hits, why is the event/weakness message happening 15 seconds *after*?

[Yinnyth]

There's a glitch with weakness triggering on nightmare mobs... I forget what exactly it is, but I remember seeing similar reports. People reporting that they used sleepga on a big crowd of stuff and then having one of them !! 30 seconds later when proc type changes.

[Tile]

think they did magic with a low proc rate is cause of how many and how fast you can cast them.

I like what your doing but you should put how Long it takes you to proc each mob too or the average time atleast

There's a glitch with weakness triggering on nightmare mobs... I forget what exactly it is, but I remember seeing similar reports. People reporting that they used sleepga on a big crowd of stuff and then having one of them !! 30 seconds later when proc type changes.

its not really a bug. it just a effect can kick in after the proc changed, I've proced a JA with Samba when the time changes to JA. i've also done the Magic proc with Sleep whent he time changes too

[Rocinante]

Day 10
bst/nin Easy Prey demon in Dynamis Xarcabard
Waning Gibbous 67% - 62%

257 ninjutsu casts
17 triggers

Trigger rate 6.6%

Yinnyth: Ah good to know it is an established phenomenon, and not just me losing grip on reality ^^

Tile: I'm not sure how relevant the time it takes to trigger would be, considering I don't just sit there and cast magic. I have to pull back to avoid links, do weaponskills, rest sometimes, and so on, and not every enemy I pull is a mage.

That said, you can calculate a theoretical "average time to trigger" based on my trigger percentages. For me (little haste gear, no fast cast gear), I can do a full elemental wheel of Ni level spells (1.5 sec each), then one Ichi elemental spell (4 sec each), and have ~2 seconds before I can start the Ni elemental wheel again. With some spreadsheet-Fu, after 224 of these cycles (6 Ni, 1 Ichi, 2 seconds wait), that will come to 1568 casts taking 3360 seconds. All my data thus far points to a 6.5% trigger rate, so 101 of the 1568 casts - would theoretically be a trigger.

101 trigger / 3360 seconds = 1 trigger / x seconds
0.030 trigger / second = 1 trigger / x seconds
x seconds = 1 trigger / 0.030 trigger / second
x seconds = 33.27

So in a world where I can just stand around casting ninjutsu 100% of the time, it would take 33.27 seconds on average. A more realistic measure, but still a bit muddled because I spent some time on a few Taurus and a Hydra Dark Knight, would be from my Tavnazia run: 20 triggers / 2 hours = 6 minutes per trigger on average. This factors in "reality", time spent hunting for time statues, time spent pulling/weaponskilling/resting/using pet abilities/getting camped on/opting not to target bombs/fish for the midnight hours.

Edit: if someone knows how much earth time corresponds to 8 vanadiel hours (the time I spent not pursuing magic trigger), that little Tavnazia calculation would be reasonably better.

[Yinnyth]

One vanahour is 2m24s in RL time, so *8 would be... 19m12s. Remember there's also an animation delay when casting magic, so you'd get a more accurate calculation by setting a stop watch when you start casting your first spell and stop it when you start casting the same spell again.

BGwiki has approximated proc rates of each type of proc, and have magic proc rate listed around 5%, JA 20%, WS 15%. BST/DNC gets steps (once every 15 seconds), violent flourish (once every 20 seconds), and feral howl if they merit it (once every 5 minutes, though I'm not sure how accurate it is). Assuming 95% accuracy on all steps, flourishs, and feral howl and 20% !! rate, that puts BST/DNC at 7.2 proc attempts per minute, *.95% = 6.84 landed proc attempts per minute, *.2 = 1.368 procs per minute or an average proc time of 43.86 seconds (slower than you estimate your proc time with magic to be). But proc time isn't everything. Again, you can't do anything when spamming magic because you need to stand still and wait for the casting to finish. JAs are instant and then you're just waiting on their cooldown timer.

Personally my favorite is large group of players with SJ restricted and strong buffs rampaging through a large group of WS proc mobs though.

Edit: ah, I thought of a better way to compare. /dnc gives you 7*.95*.2 or 1.33 procs per min, so assuming BGwiki is right about proc rates, you would need 1.33/0.05 or 26.6 spells cast per minute to match that proc rate. Or 1.33/0.15 or 8.87 WSs per minute to match.

[Tile]

I've gone in Dnc/war afew time when im with a group.

4 steps in a min.
3 Violent Flourishs
2 Wild Flourishs
2 Provokes
Samba (only the hit that lands the Daze counts)

can proc at a pretty fast rate. but that being said still find it faster to go in a City zone grab 3-4 WS mobs (you can find groups like that if you know where to camp) and spam Cyclone and AE. but like I said I only do this when im in a group

about magic procs though, has anyone else gone in as Smn and fought magic mobs? I was using Free Diablos and was getting about 80% proc rate with Nightmare, happened on more then 1 run. Was fighting Yags in windy and it was crazy. recast is a pain but going but procing the Smn NM with just 1 move was pure love. got a few hundred to show for it

[Yinnyth]

Samba (only the hit that lands the Daze counts)

Every hit from the DNC who used Samba lands a daze and refreshes its duration. I think you've been confused by the CoP timechange glitch or by the old glitch where it would sometimes report the wrong person who procced. If landing daze via sambas worked, you wouldn't need to use any other JA, just hit stuff an average of 5 times.

All reports indicate that only JAs which get used by a player directly onto an enemy count for proccing purposes so you'd need to bring some pretty decisive evidence. I normally go thf/dnc when I duo Dynamis with my friend, and try to keep up samba the whole time. I've never procced with haste samba, nor have I procced with feint (a JA which works in a similar way), so I'm going to have to ask for some proof on this before I accept it as fact.

[Tile]

can't proof that i did it, but has only been in Safehold on Tauri. happened afew times, and it would only happen on hits where there was no daze before. at start of fight or Mid fight while using a new samba. maybe its just a Tauri thing