A Concise List of Current Well-known Balance Issues

[Luvbunny]

The updates that SMN got is pale in comparison to the updates that PUP and DRG got. Is it better than nothing? yes. Are the few that useful are good? yes very much so. But it's like a moot point, the SMN job has been neglected for so long that the players will take every little update we can get and just make do with it since that's all we will ever get for now. At least till the developers willing to put 110% to this game again instead of putting skeleton crews while the majority of them are being put on task such as creating FF14 version 2.0. The thing that is very frustrating is that we know the team is extremely capable to create a fun enjoyable content, they already did it and did it extremely well, but for some reason they completely refuse to do it again or learn from past success like ToAU and Abyssea....

Unless they announce some sort of mini add ons (this is the best we will get this year lol) by end of summer, this game is going downhill again. Guild Wars 2, Tera, and Diablo 3 will take some percentage of the player base, and without giving the rest a hope dangling carrot, I see a dire future. FF14 Version 2.0 is not the golden ticket.

[Alhanelem]

FF14 Version 2.0 is not the golden ticket.

Don't write it off, really, don't. But you're still going to have to wait a while for that- They're basically rebuilding the engine from scratch because the original developers messed up so much that they were limited in how far they could go to fix things with the current system- that's why it's taking so long.

Anyway, I agree SMN still needs more. That's why I was bothered so much by the OP stating that he felt pet jobs were OP because you can throw pets at BCNMs to win. Thing is, you can throw BLMs at stuff to win, you can throw DDs at stuff to win... You get the idea- it's not a valid point.

[Luvbunny]

It's funny how they see FF14 Version 2.0 is worth the effort when they already have the golden ticket of FFXI. Simply rebuilding the engine from scratch on FFXI and create true HD version would be great, migrate everyone to PS3, Xbox and PC for good. I mean FF14 will be out for PS3 probably close to 2013 at this point and won't be truly ready in a good way at least by mid 2013 or so, usually it takes a year or more to get a good balanced content - unless they took the lesson of abyssea and implement it. Ah what do you know, Yoshi is the star of abyssea and ToAU

[Luvbunny]

Anyway, I agree SMN still needs more. That's why I was bothered so much by the OP stating that he felt pet jobs were OP because you can throw pets at BCNMs to win. Thing is, you can throw BLMs at stuff to win, you can throw DDs at stuff to win... You get the idea- it's not a valid point.

I don't think the original OP posted it, another person who has no clue on how to play pet jobs did it. He must be either misinform, too lazy to level pet jobs, or just hold a grudge over pet jobs lol. Yeah you can throw pretty much all DDs, Mages, Smn, Bst, etc take your pick. People took advantage of zerg set up for years!! It's not that we cannot think of other strategies, but when you find out the sure win strategy that consume the least amount of time with the most possible reward, you do it, verbatim, end of story. Just like in real life, you gain profit by doing it with the least amount of time to get the most out of an event. Not everyone is crazy for punishment for a grindtastic fest with tons of death and frustration for an artificial "challenge".

Btw, we have not seen any pet jobs yet in FF14, I have a feeling the original team hated it so much that they decided not to add pet jobs to 14, since they have to do another work in balancing the AI. So say goodbye to PUP, BST, and SMN to ever appear on 14

[Arcon]

Why bother factoring in the time it takes to progress with ToAU to get Alexander Prime?

Because Alexander can and is used outside of it. Alexander is not related to this fight itself.

It's just a (now out of date) strategy for the final limit break fight, unless you aren't strong enough to farm the rarab items.

That's just a (now possible) strategy for the final limit break fight, unless you're smart enough to see that running around killing fodder mobs takes hours compared to the two minutes it takes to shout for a SMN or ask a SMN friend to join you, or even zero time if one of the people who needs it even has SMN leveled. Not everyone likes to waste their time like you do. People have shit to do and places to be. Both strategies are valid and equally simple, but only one of them is smart.

[Sp1cyryan]

Because Alexander can and is used outside of it. Alexander is not related to this fight itself.



That's just a (now possible) strategy for the final limit break fight, unless you're smart enough to see that running around killing fodder mobs takes hours compared to the two minutes it takes to shout for a SMN or ask a SMN friend to join you, or even zero time if one of the people who needs it even has SMN leveled. Not everyone likes to waste their time like you do. People have shit to do and places to be. Both strategies are valid and equally simple, but only one of them is smart.

G10 is down to the newer population since you, I, and Sally Joe have already completed it. Newer people either don't have SMN or Alex. WHY NOT FACTOR THAT IN?!

Point is the tail and the time it takes was irrelevant because he said SMN is never a hindrance in that fight and I gave an easy to encounter possibly more likely scenario where it would be.

Perfect defense does not last as long as the tail and does not provide as much protection as the tail considering starts decaying 45 seconds into its use. So now that you have given up this DD slot to a SMN that has to use all its MP then stop and recover MP for however long that takes (even just siphoning and getting back into the battle is time out) you now need a WHM to compensate. As the fight will not be over in 1 minute with the type of people you will be picking up for such an event. So now you are two DD down and at risk for losing considering now you are braving his hundred fists somewhere around decaying time.

Do not get me wrong. I have won the fight with Alex several times before the tail adjustment and it was my preferred strategy. However, it did not guarantee a win and I would still use the tail with it to buy some time to try and get damage on him when he used to run around before PDing. You get people who are terrible in groups for this fight easily as not everyone is a celebrity and has people better equipped for victory people fill the slot.

With the change you just need DD and a tail to get more of a guarantee for winning. DDs which are much more accessible than SMNs and WHMs (especially ones that are not slow and/or bad). With the change you can still go with the THF with terrible gear, under capped skills, and a lack of any use at all and still not even come close to losing.

I am on SMN a lot and honestly I think Alhanelem is being more of a fanboy than objective.

The time it takes to get the tail is moot as you can easily take time shouting for a SMN forever, possibly losing the fight (not farfetced). PD is an outdated, but still viable strategy. It just happens to be inferior now.

[Luvbunny]

Perfect Defense is valid, you also need to factor ENFIRE damage, and can also add double attack boost from Ifrit, add to that that you can give your party ice spikes, stoneskinga and hastega, SMN IS A MUST for the battle. You do realize that once SMN used PD, they are not useless, astral flow last 3 mnts, you can use convert or sublimation to gain mp back - and elemental siphon. So within the 45 seconds, summoner can add more damage via astral flow, add elixir and whatnot, they can actually do 2 astral flow back to back within 3 mnts, and still do another round of damage post astral flow with Heavenly Strike. Obviously you will need a very good summoner who actually understand the job, not some drive by summoner via abyssea school of leveling. SMN + SCH + 4 beast/4 monk is your ideal set up.

[Alhanelem]

Newer people either don't have SMN or Alex. WHY NOT FACTOR THAT IN?!

Because there are tons of older people around who do have it and can help, that's why. I've helped a whole bunch of people with the limit break quest. Many people needing the limit break quest aren't even newer players, they're older players who took a break. A friend of mine just did this. He'd played for years, and quit after 90 cap. He came back, and I told him "You have SMN. Just get a bunch of DDs, use inferno howl, then perfect defense, sit back and watch the fight win itself."

However, it did not guarantee a win

You really should not EVER lose with this. If you are, then you lost on purpose or played with people who don't know how to target an enemy and press the attack button (or you didn't use inferno howl).

[Arcon]

Perfect defense does not last as long as the tail and does not provide as much protection as the tail considering starts decaying 45 seconds into its use. So now that you have given up this DD slot to a SMN that has to use all its MP then stop and recover MP for however long that takes (even just siphoning and getting back into the battle is time out) you now need a WHM to compensate.

Completely wrong. WHM is completely unnecessary, I've never even done the fight with one and I've helped tons of people with the fight. And even without a WHM a SMN does not need to cure for the entire fight. I do it either as SMN + 5xDD or SMN + SCH + 4xDD, and in either case I very rarely had to cure (only with extremely shitty DDs, when the fight got unnecessarily prolonged). And the SMN + SCH approach not only offers you a curing member, but it has actually even higher DD output than the other option, because of Embrava.

Engage at distance > Hastega > Tabula Rasa > Accession > Embrava > melee buffs (Zergressor/Warcry/whatever) > Inferno Howl > Alexander > Run in and melee without using any WS/JA/Spells

The result is Tarutaru tartare in a few seconds. And if you're that scared you can even do Accession > Regen V, which will make you recover 100 HP/tick and which is more than the Taru can possibly dish out under PD, even if he had a fulltime Hundred Fists effect. I've done it with many subpar DDs. Worst win I got was SMN, SCH, BLUx2, THF, PLD, me being SMN and SCH mule and most of them were barely AH geared. One of us died right as PD wore off, but we still won without ever throwing a cure on anyone (which was my bad, as I didn't feel the need to control the mule). Just tell noobs to get full pink or perle gear for cruor, if they don't have anything else, along with Headlong Belt and possibly some food (I've always done it without) and they're set. As long as they hit fast, they don't need to hit heavy, because Inferno Howl will do most of their damage. It's just a bonus to win it in even less time. Note that a BRD instead of a SCH also works just as well, only without the Regen (unless it's a Daurdabla BRD, but that's just a bonus and not, in any way, required).

And for the record, no one is arguing that a tail is a safer strategy, so stop bringing that up. The safest strategy before the adjustment was getting 5x BLM and a refresher and use several tails. That works just as well (I even did it with just one tail with a good group), but that's not the point. The point is it's unnecessary when it can be done almost just as safely with way less effort. It's not hard if done correctly. You won't find many people who need it, which means many people who have it can help, which means they're usually better geared, skilled and higher level. I help everyone I see shouting for it and I know there's others too. I even farmed a tail for myself months ago and I've yet to use it, and I've probably been doing two fights a week since then. Farming one is just a waste of time. But if you're that paranoid about the win, sure, go ahead, I certainly won't stop you.

[Camiie]

Perfect defense does not last as long as the tail and does not provide as much protection as the tail considering starts decaying 45 seconds into its use. So now that you have given up this DD slot to a SMN that has to use all its MP then stop and recover MP for however long that takes (even just siphoning and getting back into the battle is time out) you now need a WHM to compensate. As the fight will not be over in 1 minute with the type of people you will be picking up for such an event. So now you are two DD down and at risk for losing considering now you are braving his hundred fists somewhere around decaying time

Last time I did this fight we did MNK MNK MNK MNK WAR(The guy who needed it who was in full perle) SMN. We won before PD wore off. Even with the decay on PD, the taru barely did any damage. The WAR and I farmed up a tail and didn't even need it. He was to use the tail as soon as PD wore. SMN is NOT a wasted slot here.