A Concise List of Current Well-known Balance Issues

[Arcon]

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I think he just doesn't understand how MAB works.

[Aquilla]

To the OP: Excellent list. There are probably more items that can go there legitimately, but I would love to see Squeenix actually address these complaints.

To SE: these are problems that need to be addressed. That is all.

[Alhanelem]

There's nothing excellent about that list. It's just a pile of subjective opinions, proposing un-needed nerfs to jobs that he doesn't like and probably doesn't even play.

They must be killed with fire before Tanaka sees them and thinks they might be a good idea, not praised.

[Edyth]

Balance in videogames is an abstract concept. Therefore, it can only be discussed in opinions supported by facts.

I did not support every point, such as the difficulty to reward ratio in Eco-Warrior, and the irrelevant amount of experience points granted by scrolls, due to the fact that I assume my audience has prior knowledge of such things, and that knowledge alone is support enough.

Also, the offensive post about pet jobs was not my own.

[Alhanelem]

Balance in videogames is an abstract concept. Therefore, it can only be discussed in opinions supported by facts. As radical as your opinions may be, Tahngarthor, I always thought you were intelligent until now.

It's fine to give opinions on balance. It's not fine to pose those opinions as facts, as the OP did.

Also, there's nothing radical about my opinions here. One of the OP's points which he is upset about - and I especially take issue with - that pet jobs can be used to beat various contents en masse- and deciding that these jobs are unbalanced because of that. Almost any content can be beaten by throwing a lot of <insert job here> at it. How many fights did we beat by throwing a bunch of BLMs at them? A bunch of heavy DDs?

It's not the fact that the original poster gave opinions on balance- it's the fact that he posed his opinions as indisputable facts. His list of "balance issues" is entirely subjective, and are not all "well known" to be balance issues. Some of the points are valid, but even those should not be written as if to imply that they are facts. The post also wasn't written in a way to invite opinions, it was just a statement- something like "I know all the balance issues with the game, and here they are."

So, thanks for the personal attacks. Also, it would seem I'm not as predictable as you think me to be.

[Edyth]

It's fine to give opinions on balance. It's not fine to pose those opinions as facts, as the OP did.

Also, there's nothing radical about my opinions here. The OP is upset that pet jobs can be used to beat various contents en masse- and deciding that these jobs are unbalanced because of that. Almost any content can be beaten by throwing a lot of <insert job here> at it. How many fights did we beat by throwing a bunch of BLMs at them? A bunch of heavy DDs?

It's not the fact that the original poster gave opinions on balance- it's the fact that he posed his opinions as indisputable facts. His list of "balance issues" is entirely subjective, and are not all "well known" to be balance issues. Some of the points are valid, but even those should not be written as if to imply that they are facts.

So, thanks for the personal attacks. Also, it would seem I'm not as predictable as you think me to be.

Your civility is admirable. I am the original poster. However, that remark about pet jobs was not part of my post; the second poster put that there, and I never added it to my list. He did mimic my bolding of important information, which I did because the original post is lengthy, so I assume that is why it appeared to be part of my list.

SMN 99 is my main job. The last thing I want is nerfs to pet jobs. Given that you interpreted the second poster's idea to be one of my own, I can understand why a PUP 99 would be offended. I apologize for my attacks. It was a misunderstanding. That comment about pet jobs, if it were part of my list, would easily taint and ruin the entire list for a pet job main.

I didn't understand why suggesting that free travel around Garlaige or an increase in Modus Veritas's effectiveness caused such a great offense.

Edit: I have removed the insults from my other post. I'm sorry. And by radical opinions, I meant that around the forum, you are vocal and I see people disagree with you often. In spite of personally disagreeing with many of your posts, I recognize you as one of the most intelligent posters here.

[Alhanelem]

I didn't understand why suggesting that free travel around Garlaige or an increase in Modus Veritas's effectiveness caused such a great offense.

I'm not necessarily opposed everything that was written. I'm definitely at odds with specific things (as is obvious) but for the rest of it, it's more the manner in which it was written.

side note: Modus Veritas is not a weak ability in function- it's just that the nerfs that were put in place to prevent its abuse to kill NMs instantly also made it unuseable outside of normal monsters. They just need to make it not stack, or not stack more than 1 or 2 times, and then remove the NM resistance. However, my point in mentioning this earlier was that every job has some things that are less useful than others. When was the last time you cast Goblin Gavotte on BRD? That doesn't mean that there are imbalances in the jobs, though.

[Kitkat]

Still stand firm in my belief the list is too fact-less or based on biased opinion. Only about 3 of your points held any weight as far as concerns go, but the rest were based off glancing biased opinion, or had inaccurate information behind them placing a biased perception of 'unbalanced' to them. I tried my best to remain concise and to the point with each, but in the future it would probably be best if you understood some of the reasoning behind the way things are built before stating it is unbalanced.

To clarify, I only mean you need to look at both the pro and con of why something would be considered unbalanced. Your arguments clearly only showed cons giving it a biased opinion, which is something I believe Alhenalem is trying to tell you. Obviously if you look at the cons only it clearly appears that something is unbalanced, but if you compare them to the pros then you start to see the reason behind why it is the way it is.

This is not to say that Mythics are balanced in terms of effort+time compared to relic or Emp, obviously it isn't (but that isn't to say that they are completly unbalanced either considering Emp collection on 90+ items comes from content people do regularly). However, you have to look at the fact devs are still in the process of updating older content and releasing newer content (which I believe is turning out to be bad given the limited staff they have on FFXI). I believe they mentioned changes to Einherjar in the works some time ago, but as of yet is has not come about. On the other hand Neo-dyn made collecting currency practically a joke along with most of the NM requirements a walk in the park (and I stress most, not all).

You didn't stress this so much as you stressed the stats though, hence why I mentioned the fact they are primarily based on utility rather than damage output. Since merited WS, these have become vastly more desired due to length of aftermath effect and how it reacts during WS. Something I think you completely disregarded in your consensus when comparing the fact stats appeared unbalanced compared to emp and relic.

Without going into further detail on picking apart other points in your OP, which I already hit on and would rather not reiterate again in further detail, I would hope that you as well as your supporters of this....list...will take more time to think about just how much they really are unbalanced when looking at the whole picture instead of a few minor inconveniences of happenstance.

[Byrth]

It's a pretty random list, and I'm given the impression that the FFXI team doesn't have the resources to address most of the issues. I have given up really suggesting new things to be added or anything besides localization errors, so:

[Fupafighter]

You're right. That path will get the job done but it is a long and rather convoluted path. Most of us have done the "open the X gate dance" or "get behind the gates jig". Personally, I get aggravated every time I have to go to Garlaige or behind any of the gates. It becomes such a pain after you do it for the hundredth time. =\


Is it too much to ask for a KI that will get us past the gates? It could be obtained via quest or some such thing. They did something similar with Delkfut's Tower.

Dude... you can buy flowers for like 100 gil a piece in upper jeuno in a store near the dancers. My god stop being stingy and lazy.