NIN combinations

[Arcon]

This is getting outright retarded. What does /BLM have? One extra inventory space and Stun. What does /SCH have? More MP, faster and cheaper casts, lower recast times, several AoE buffs and cures, access to Dispel, higher enhancing and enfeebling magic skills and even more inventory. What are you missing? A brain?

[Llana_Virren]

This says lights arts increases skill levels to B, gives fast cast and reduces MP cost of spells. You can do more than that if you skill up your magic skills, you can cap cast/recast times with gear, and MP isn't an issue, so.......... what am I missing exactly? nothing? k.

Which is why /sch is superior, as it saves us those precious inventory slots for potency, not casting time. Then again, saving you one inventory space is apparently more important than saving a mages 10....

[Dragoy]

Giving up gil and inventory for warp isn't useful when you don't need to, especially inventory. Maybe you guys should get good TP sets, an MDT set, PDT set, WS sets, a ninjutsu set (for VW), proc weapons (for VW and abyssea) and tools, then come back and tell me how awesome -1 inventory is.

I have all the inventory space very much used up most of the time, actually. Granted, I carry lots of 'useless' stuff for the purpose of 'fun', so I'm far from efficient in that regard. I do, however, carry more and less complete TP/WS sets as well as sets for reducing damage taken. I do not do Voidwatch, but I have weapons specifically for triggering the red weakness as a Ninja in Abyssea.

So yeah, I do know how awesome this -1 inventory you speak of can be, even though my sets may be far from complete, or optimal even. The inventory system itself is a big part against getting the most out of sets. I just can't be bothered, and I have different priorities. ^^;

A scroll of Instant Warp specifically is pretty much free, and if need be, it is easy to drop and get replaced later on so it has never felt like an issue to me. Could be to others, but that's just my experience and opinion on it.


Blubb~

[Darwena]

This topic seriously going nowhere... Debating about WHM sub isn't the topic and isn't WHM categories...

[wish12oz]

This is getting outright retarded. What does /BLM have? One extra inventory space and Stun. What does /SCH have? More MP,

More MP which isnt useful.

faster and cheaper casts,

No it doesnt, you can cap recast and cast times with just gear on WHM, and again, MP isnt useful.

lower recast times,

No, it doesnt

several AoE buffs and cures,

WHM gets all those naturally, and MP isnt an issue so who cares if you spend 260 MP on curaga 4 or 88 oncure 4, it wont even be that much because of AF3+2 pants

on access to Dispel,

You got me there, but then I have a brd mule so... whatever, not useful

higher enhancing and enfeebling magic skills

Which arent useful, because its only 10 enhancing skill, and its not even required to reach the cap of 500, which has been shown to be the cap on everything it was tested for. And lol, enfeebling skill? you really think 14 or 15 more enfeebling skill is going to help you land.... what was it WHMs can cast again? Dia2? AWESOME! You know enfeebling skill only helps accuracy, not potency right?

and even more inventory.

WHMs dont get more inventory from subbing SCH, because they will have all that gear anyway for times they dont sub SCH.

What are you missing? A brain?

I'm missing someone who can come up with something useful from /rdm or /sch, so far it's dispel (which isnt even useful most of the time) vs stun (which also isnt always useful) +warp2. Looks like /BLM is still winning.

Which is why /sch is superior, as it saves us those precious inventory slots for potency, not casting time. Then again, saving you one inventory space is apparently more important than saving a mages 10....

see above comments.

[Behemothx]

... And lol, enfeebling skill? you really think 14 or 15 more enfeebling skill is going to help you land.... what was it WHMs can cast again? Dia2? AWESOME! You know enfeebling skill only helps accuracy, not potency right?

Glad you're not my WHM, you don't even know what enfeebling spells are.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Nor does 99% of the whms I've seen but I digress. Not that most of them after dia are very relevant or used outside of proc'ing in VW.

[Llana_Virren]

Wish12oz needs to stop smoking crack during events if the last post is supposed to be of any merit.

/sch > /blm in most events.

/sch provides faster casting time (which means gear does not need to be devoted to casting speeds, and can focus on potency/efficiency).

/sch increases skills by a helluva lot more than "10 points" with the exception of oh, say Enhancing Magic. But then again, Dark Arts + Drain/Aspir must be behond his understanding. And before you say "why would a WHM need those spells anyway" I say this: do you always have a BLM or RDM/blm around to proc yellow on dark magic?

/sch is the superior subjob for WHM and it will continue to be for some time. Similar to the "NIN is /war only" fallacy, /sch is not the only decent subjob for WHM, but it is arguably the most beneficial in most circumstances.

Learn2play before you spew nonsense. Too many good players have been carrying your dead weight around and letting you think you know what you're talking about.

V/R

White Mages everywhere

The argument of "you can do all of that with gear" also applies in this argument: you don't need a WHM to go /blm for Warp... you can get Warp with gear. (*cough* Warp Cudgel *cough*)

[Economizer]

The argument of "you can do all of that with gear" also applies in this argument

Except it doesn't apply. You can't cap out Enhancing Magic with just gear.

• C+ Enhancing
  +378
• Light Arts (B+ Enhancing)
  +26 (404)
• Merits
  +16
• Main
  Beneficus - +15, +5 MDB
• Head
  Orison Cap +2 - AF3 Set Bonus
  Zenith Crown +1 - +8
• Neck
  Colossus's Torque - +7 (10)
• Ear
  Augmenting Earring - +3
• Ear
  Aptus Earring - +2
• Body
  Orison Bliaud +2 - +10 MDB, AF3 Set Bonus
  Anhur Robe - +12
• Hands
  Orison Mitts +2 - AF3 Set Bonus
  Ayao's Gages - +10
  Augur's Gloves - +5
• Back
  Merciful Cape - +5
• Waist
  Olympus Sash - +5
• Legs
  Cleric's pantaloons +2 - +18, +25 Barspell Resist
  Orison Pantaloons +2 - AF3 Set Bonus
• Feet
  Orison Duckbills +2 - +20, AF3 set bonus

The first thing I'd like readers to note is that even with a perfect gear set (which isn't easy to get, btw) you'll still be pulling below that magic 500 even if you don't use 4/5 AF3 set bonus for gear (i.e. gimp WHM) if you don't have Light Arts. Basically, you can't do it with gear.

The second thing I'd like to point out is that a perfect barspell set also requires /SCH. Considering that magic defense bonus boosts are a White Mage's trump card over other healers, I'd imagine that you'd want to get as close to a perfect set as possible, and that's only possible with /SCH. I'd say good luck making up 26 points of Enhancing Magic without digging into your MDB and AF3 bonuses but it simply isn't possible.

Not even knowing what is possible while arguing that it is as part of your reasoning certainly lends to the phrase "learn to play" quite well...

-

If different play styles weren't right then we probably wouldn't have sub jobs, White Mages would just get Light Arts in the first place and Ninjas would get Sambas in the first place.

Also, if anyone is even reading this thread for sub job combos for Ninja anymore, here is a fun one to try out: NIN/PLD. Obviously you'll still be Dual Wielding, and you lose a bit of melee strength compared to NIN/DRK (which is probably the most similar sub combo), but you still get access to Sanguine Blade, and other methods to heal yourself like /DRK, but you get Flash, Auto-Refresh, Resist Sleep, Shell II, and Sentinel, making it a more defensive combination in certain situations, particularly for Stun resistant mobs (or if you're willing to drop your TP to macro in a shield momentarily to bash).

[Llana_Virren]

Econ, you misunderstood. I was using wish's own "use your gear for recast timer" argument of saying he could use his gear for warp (via cudgel). He seems convinced that nothing but /blm is useful for WHM; WHM should never use anything other than /blm (because /sch and /rdm only provide additional MP, supposedly); and that equipment will do everything /sch can.

Obviously, for WHMs especially (as I am a devoted WHM), the benefit of /sch reaches beyond what gear alone can provide, and I appreciate that you understand that.

On topic, I've seen a few NIN go /pld for the reasons you've added. Really, sometimes it's beneficial to chose a subjob that doesn't compliment your primary, just to make certain things harder and thereby test your mettle. Otherwise you'll find yourself in the crowd of DDs crying that they keep dying due to paralyze/stun/amnesia (but couldn't be bothered to use screens) or can't hold hate, get the WHM killed, and then complain that they can't heal themselves (no potions, etc).

The tragedy is that MMOs allow bad players to syphon off the good ones, and for idiots to survive by the good graces of exceptional support crews, like the BRDs and RDMs that did 99% of the work on ToAU parties.