Provenance Watcher~

[Mahoro]

I actually completely agree with this. Other "final bosses" of content in this game have actually had higher drop rates or 100% drops (AV, PW, Kirin, Odin, etc). I don't see why Prov Watcher should be any different.

[Llana_Virren]

3 KIs that we have to REPEATEDLY get EVERY SINGLE TIME, which is extremely RETARDED.... Those KIs should be permanent and need only to be gotten once.

You never did the Sky Gods, did you?

[Yinnyth]

I actually completely agree with this. Other "final bosses" of content in this game have actually had higher drop rates or 100% drops (AV, PW, Kirin, Odin, etc). I don't see why Prov Watcher should be any different.

Kirin and Odin have high drop rates? Well, that's news to me. I would also like to point out that (when these NMs were in their prime) it took much longer to get a pop. The kupofried thingy is a bit of a bottleneck now, I suppose, but a year from now you'll have more provenance access saved up than you'll use in your lifetime.

Here's the reason threads bashing the drop rate of VW stuff is so common: I went 0/10, therefore droprate sucks. I went 7/7, therefore drop system sucks. This 30 minute event has a lower drop rate than an NM who takes 30 man-hours to get a pop for, therefore drop rate sucks.

My personal experience with VW versus my experience with getting a Novio earring: I did ~16 Akvans, about 10-15 minutes per kill and got kalasiris, and then I stopped killing Akvan. I did ~24 Qilins, about 5 minutes per kill and got Fajin boots, and then I stopped killing Qilin. I joined an endgame LS, farming sea twice a week for 2-4 hours per run. After half a year (56 sea runs for ~3 hours each or roughly 150 hours of sea), it was finally my turn for a Novio, and then I kept doing sea.

[Mahoro]

I assume you are aware of the irony of using the very type of personalized argument in your third paragraph that you highlight in your second paragraph. I was intentionally trying not to personalize my own drop rate (which is fairly good) but instead use the general trend of anecdotes from people.

In any event, yes, Kirin and Odin have higher drop rates for items and abjurations. Sure, perhaps not the most DESIRED ones (W. Legs, E. Body), but higher drop rate of stuff nonetheless. Odin has guaranteed loot slots for abjurations. Prov Watcher's loot table is just as big, if not bigger, than Kirin/Odin etc. But most of those items have the exact same low drop rate. As for your other example, JoL farts out an earring 100%, it's just a flip of the coin whether it's a Novia or Novio. Your personal experience is irrelevant to my point because although it took you time to get DKP for a Novio, OTHER PEOPLE in your group were getting either Novias or Novios every kill. That isn't happening here.

Granted it does take longer to get popsets for other endgame content bosses, but I guess people can decide for themselves whether a 1-5% drop rate of an NM that takes 6 Caturae kills and a Dragon kill evens out with an NM like Odin that takes 9 chamber kills spread out over a larger time period and a horsey kill.

[Aequis]

With Voidwach as a whole, I'd love some sense of being on a path; some route to eventually earning a reward other than this "random chance" mechanic that seems to infect everything lately. Still think a point system would have been the best way to handle drops in VW, even if it was 50 "Pil points" for a Toci's harness.

No offence, but 1/16 on any of the bodies is a superb rate of success. VW has made me quite bitter with the time I have put in and with few results to show for it.

This 30 minute event has a lower drop rate than an NM who takes 30 man-hours to get a pop for, therefore drop rate sucks.

I agree and disagree. Most things sea or sky-related these days can be low-manned and even duo-ed in a lot of cases, but the vast timesinks are still there. Zipacna potentially drops two gems now, but still can take 2-4 hours to respawn. You can duo Ix'DRK, but it might decide to reraise 30 times, in which case you're going to be there a long time.

VW as an event (with a competent group) may be short, but is it really an excuse for the system being the way it is? I'd take a path of progression over a random chance any day.

[Sparthos]

Kirin and Odin have high drop rates? Well, that's news to me. I would also like to point out that (when these NMs were in their prime) it took much longer to get a pop. The kupofried thingy is a bit of a bottleneck now, I suppose, but a year from now you'll have more provenance access saved up than you'll use in your lifetime.

Here's the reason threads bashing the drop rate of VW stuff is so common: I went 0/10, therefore droprate sucks. I went 7/7, therefore drop system sucks. This 30 minute event has a lower drop rate than an NM who takes 30 man-hours to get a pop for, therefore drop rate sucks.

My personal experience with VW versus my experience with getting a Novio earring: I did ~16 Akvans, about 10-15 minutes per kill and got kalasiris, and then I stopped killing Akvan. I did ~24 Qilins, about 5 minutes per kill and got Fajin boots, and then I stopped killing Qilin. I joined an endgame LS, farming sea twice a week for 2-4 hours per run. After half a year (56 sea runs for ~3 hours each or roughly 150 hours of sea), it was finally my turn for a Novio, and then I kept doing sea.

That was then, this is now.

There is no excuse. Content like Provenance could have a similar system to Nyzul uncharted where after X clears you can choose a piece of gear you want. We all have been through the toils of dealing with DKP and LS politics but that is irrelevant when SE creates new content because if they felt inclined to they could make things free of such annoyances by showing people a clear goal to loot if you do something.

They haven't for whatever reason so PUGs will continue to squabble over the one pool drop, people will feel they've wasted their time and the cycle continues.

[Mahoro]

Although I wouldn't mind seeing Prov Watcher shit out an abjuration or something 100%, I actually wish all Voidwatch mobs had similar loot mechanics to this dragon: individual loot pools AND direct drops. This is one trend I like, and I wish they retroactively applied it to prior VWNM's. The individual pools would reward the PUGs, and the direct drops would reward the DKP-based LS's.

I was in a non-LS group the other day and Tessera Saio dropped. The screen filled with lots. I started to gnash my teeth and think about what would have happened if it dropped for my LS: some excited Wildfire COR would have spent DKP and got it ;;

[Yinnyth]

I assume you are aware of the irony of using the very type of personalized argument in your third paragraph that you highlight in your second paragraph.

I can see why people would think that, and I suppose that's my fault for not better outlining my argument. I wasn't trying to say that basing it on personal experience is bad. Personal experience, after all, is all we have to go on for this. It's just that you have to keep in mind there are a vast number of personal experiences we choose not to, or are unable to consider. I told no one in my PuG when my kalasiris or my boots dropped, so for all they know, the drop rate is uber crappy. Though to be fair, 4 other people actually admitted to getting fajin boots (one of them claiming to get 3 pairs).

My point is this: people have one bad experience and then they hyper-focus on it, ignoring everything else. But they forget that they got omphalos bullet on their first set of akvans (even though they might not play cor). They neglect to mention that they got brego gloves while they were just doing one kill to tier-up. They choose not to pay attention to the fact that 7 people in their group got the item they wanted from the kill in one set of 4 kills. The luck swings back and forth in VW as it does in any event. It averages out to be a better drop rate than Einherjar, Sky Gods, Sea Gods, Land Gods, and Zeni NMs.

You will spend less time killing Qilin for a sparkle dagger than you would spend sitting around dragon aery and waiting for claim, then waiting for drops, then waiting for your turn to finally get ridill. (yes, I know the system has changed now, I'm talking about the way it was when Ridill was shiny). But since people only pay attention to the big items they want, and they only pay attention to their own loot pool, and they see 0 drops, they begin to think to themselves: "0% drop rate = worse than 5% drop rate on defending ring", therefore droprate is worse than King Behemoth. Which is untrue. It won't be long before there's more Adamas' on each server than defending rings.

True, you could get unlucky and wind up going 1/100. But in that time, you'll probably get half of Provenance's other drops, and it's still no more ridiculous than the drop rates of old.

[Yinnyth]

I agree and disagree. Most things sea or sky-related these days can be low-manned and even duo-ed in a lot of cases, but the vast timesinks are still there. Zipacna potentially drops two gems now, but still can take 2-4 hours to respawn. You can duo Ix'DRK, but it might decide to reraise 30 times, in which case you're going to be there a long time.

And years from now, I'm guessing Voidwatch will be in the same position. It's unfair to compare VW now to Sky 7 years old. In the old days, Zipacna couldn't drop 2 pop items, his repop timer was less forgiving, and you'd be in heated competition with other linkshells. He also couldn't be solo'd by anything short of an avesta-level rdm, but that would take somewhere around an hour to do.

I'm not fighting the fact that drop rates suck and always will suck(in whatever events come after VW). I'm more arguing against people who claim that it's worse now than it used to be. What are your hopes of getting Tessera Saio nowadays compared to your hopes of getting Ninurta's Sash back at level 75?

I suppose the big exception would be Abyssea. Abyssea was wtf amounts of loot for (comparatively) very little work.

[Ophannus]

The purpose of Abyssea was to 'fast-forward' people from 75-90 to prepare them for the eventual true endgame of present and future. Pre-75 it took weeks to get a job to 75 well geared, they figured it'd be easier to do a battle content scenario to have copious amounts of 76-90 gear to get everyone up to par. AF3+2 by the time endgame is settled in for level 99, should end up being like AF2 was at 75, relegated to situational uses. When AF2 first came out, it was hot and sought after(pre homam/askar/nashira/odin/znm/toau gear) then once all that new gear came out, AF2 become lolAF2. So we can probably presume that with NeoNyzul/Limbus/VW and future expansion/NM gear that AF3+2 will eventually become the new lolAF2.