Provenance Watcher~

[Mahoro]

The best loot distribution is free lot for anyone, it's the only way to satisfy anyone, and the only way to keep members. Don't act like I'm a LS free noob that doesn't want to get implied in large scale farming. This crap is not endgame it's a 18-man BCNM. I've done countless of point based system like sky dynamis lamebus etc it just doesn't work and people quit when they get their shit. Best thing I did was Einherjar where the lotting rule basically free lot for everyone, and the LS last like 2 years, 33 odin.


Nobody would farm hagun with their LS at 75, same problem here. I've done plenty of point system based event and it just doesn't work in the long run. It's not necessarily because people keep everything for them, it's because it's impossible to give everyone what they want, which leads to frustration, and also leads to those that got anything to leave. But hey, keep thinking you are not wasting your time. Do you have a relic 99 ? A mythic 99? An empy 99 ? Meteor ? Arise ? 250 millions ? A full nyzul set ? I bet the answers to those question are no to all, which totally confirms what I'm saying. Doing EVRYTHING in a event which is what you imply just doesn't work. You need a LS for one specific event at best.

As I've told you before, doing events with a LS does not impede any of the goals you just listed. Once again, you assume all of someone's time is spent doing EVERYTHING with a LS, which is quite far from the truth. There are plenty of people in my shell who have many of the things on your list. All of your examples can either be achieved from endless Dyna farming or side Nyzulling, which are obviously not done in an LS, so I'm not sure what you are trying to prove.

Regarding your question about Meteor/Arise, we haven't even started farming Prov Watcher yet, but plan to incorporate it very soon. So people are free to buy Meteor from bazaars (but oops, none available yet!). We do Dyna at MOST once a week, and people can farm all they want 26+ remaining days of the month. I also farm Neo-Nyzul on the side, and don't understand why you continually raise that example as it is something a small group does ONCE a week...

Doing every event freelot for anyone is one of the quickest ways to cause frustration possible. People want predictability and the ability to make progression toward a goal, and point systems allow for that. Why do you think so many people were crying for SE point systems in VW? In your examples, nothing is stopping people from leaving once they get their shit freelot, so I'm not sure why you think THAT scenario is so superior to a LS based environment, where the effort you make in one event carries over into the next.

Do you honestly think that frustration would be alleviated in an "18-man BCNM" where everyone freelots Meteor and Arise over the people who could actually use it? Do you think the people who lost a freelot E. Body, N. Legs, V. Fork, etc. in Odin in your example were magically free of frustration because they knew they were guaranteed to get it in the future, and they knew the guy who did it would stick around? You also assumed only one person in my shell would lot stuff at a time, which is false. Multiple people who meet the points/mainlot requirements can cast lots, not just one person.

You call Prov Watcher an 18-man BCNM, but it is essentially no different from any other VW fight except for two drops falling into the group pool. Bahamutv2 and other events were 18-man BCNM's too, and doing that freelot or PUG would have been the quickest path to frustration for anybody who wanted the Helm or Staff. Your arbitrary labeling of an event does not carry any weight, nor do the assumptions you make in every single post.

[Arbole]

I like how there are much harder fights than T3 Zilart, yet they all still drop riftsand (/sarcasm). I'm pretty sure there are more empyreans out there than god knows what trial is needed for riftsand. Also, nothing released since T3 zilart drops HMPs besides the other T2 expansion bosses. I'm pretty sure there's a file somewhere that contains an HMP coinpurse... I also don't like that crystal petrifacts were put into my HQ slot for VW chests. SE likes to artificially inflate the crap out of things we don't want. They can't even say that all the logs and rocks we get are helping woodworkers or goldsmiths, as AH prices are crap and it's almost always better to NPC your junk loot than to let it pool up while you wait for your mere 7 slots of AH space to be sold. /rantover

[Windwhisper]

worst part is that scrolls dont drop in personal reward chest but only in pool, which totally beats the point on personal chests. Now people mercenary the scrolls instead ( i cant blame them for it, but the little man who beat the battle has only a chance to obtain it if he pays for it). I dont call that balanced.

[Tamoa]

I think Pchan's got it backwards - I see it as far more likely that people will jump ship once they get what they want if everything is freelot. In a point based ls, people are much more likely to stay after getting an item they want, building points for the next item they want.

Besides, I hate how so many people just assume that in every endgame ls, the leader gets everything first, followed by everybody who's kissing the leader's ass. If you're in a ls like that, then leave - and if you don't, you get no sympathy from me.

[Monchat]

nobody wants to join a point based ls where the best item are basically locked by all the people that got the highest points. My einherjar ls for example the rules were: you chose 2 items you want, if they drop, you can lot. worked great.

[Mahoro]

nobody wants to join a point based ls where the best item are basically locked by all the people that got the highest points. My einherjar ls for example the rules were: you chose 2 items you want, if they drop, you can lot. worked great.

You need a system that encourages new members and keeps old members coming back. We have a capped point system where anyone who has the point value assigned to the item can lot, even new members. To the extent people want to "lock out" stuff, they can bid 2x.

In your example, what happens when someone gets both items? Did everyone stay till every last person got both items on their list? One event LS's/PUG's = no accountability, no continuity. "Worked great" for the people who win freelot against 12+ other people, sure, but does nothing to alleviate frustration when people can't make incremental progress and they have to rely on the hope that when 9/10 people get their item, they will stay till the group is 10/10.

Your system is also inapplicable to events like Prov Watcher where there are only 2 direct drop-only items. "Ok, I choose which items I want to freelot? I choose Meteor! Woops, 12 other people chose it ;;"

Multiple event LS = get your drop, and still attend event because you are accruing points for next item at next event

[bungiefanNA]

nobody wants to join a point based ls where the best item are basically locked by all the people that got the highest points. My einherjar ls for example the rules were: you chose 2 items you want, if they drop, you can lot. worked great.

An LS I was in just used gil for points. You attend an event, you get a payout shortly after. If you want an item, bids start at 50k, and you outbid the other players to win the item, then pay it to the shell leader. After the event, all gil paid to the leader is split between the attendees, evenly (with deductions for being late or whatever, and maybe bonuses for being the event coordinator). If it's a farming run, after the items are sold (such as Umbral Marrow), the gil is split between the people that attended the event to farm them. If you're mercing out to do FC EXP leech parties or get people outside the LS the items they want, than the gil is split between the people killing the mobs.

If you don't bid on items, you get rich. Then when you do have items to bid on, you have a lot of gil to do so with.

[Duelle]

Meh, if gear drops were plentiful you could use a system like Suicide Kings instead of having to deal with point-based systems. For those not familiar, Suicide Kings is basically a list of the people in the group. Person in spot #1 gets to roll on their loot of choice, and when they do they go to the bottom of the list. Person that was #2 is now #1, they get to roll on their loot of choice, and so on. Of course, SK assumes two things: you're a static, and drops are plentiful to the point there is regular movement in the SK list. Worked well for my guild in WoW, specially in places like Ulduar that had a crapton of bosses with stuff everyone wanted or needed to some degree.

[scaevola]

An LS I was in just used gil for points. You attend an event, you get a payout shortly after. If you want an item, bids start at 50k, and you outbid the other players to win the item, then pay it to the shell leader. After the event, all gil paid to the leader is split between the attendees, evenly (with deductions for being late or whatever, and maybe bonuses for being the event coordinator). If it's a farming run, after the items are sold (such as Umbral Marrow), the gil is split between the people that attended the event to farm them. If you're mercing out to do FC EXP leech parties or get people outside the LS the items they want, than the gil is split between the people killing the mobs.

If you don't bid on items, you get rich. Then when you do have items to bid on, you have a lot of gil to do so with.

This is a semi-popular form of PuG raiding content in World of Warcraft and it's really successful on the servers where it's common enough for the particulars to be common knowledge among said PuG players: everybody joins the raid and bids on drops and pays the winning bids to the raid leader, and the pot's split at the end of the run. GMs intervene to prevent ninja'ing of pots (which frequently get up to the hundreds of thousands of gold these days).

[Tamoa]

nobody wants to join a point based ls where the best item are basically locked by all the people that got the highest points. My einherjar ls for example the rules were: you chose 2 items you want, if they drop, you can lot. worked great.

That's not free lot for all, which is what your buddy says here:

Best thing I did was Einherjar where the lotting rule basically free lot for everyone, and the LS last like 2 years, 33 odin.

Guess you 2 weren't in the same Einherjar ls?