[dev1102] Meteor had better be obtainable!

[Alpheus]

I wouldn't say clique-ish but def hard to find a shout for Provenance at least here on Asura. The one time i did happen to go was a rather pleasant run didn't get the dragon win but got 2/3 of the new KIs from the cat BCNMs

(the temp KIs and atmacites i should say still need the stone regen KI tho ; ; )

[Elexia]

Hope you're joking and I'm missing the sarcasm.

Considering my playtime is 11pm - 4am and I play with the Japanese mostly, did you miss the "in my experience"? No sarcasm here, I've seen more cliquish behavior from NA players than I have from Japanese players when it comes to these kind of events, even to the point they'll kick out people that helped them get their shit done for someone in their shell (that didn't even have progress done) just because it's a shell mate, this could be a server specific thing.

That's why you don't ignore what someone writes, but then again, since I can actually speak and understand Japanese that helps participating with them. So unless you were trying to say Americans are a lot more welcoming then I'm confused why you'd think it was sarcasm because in all my MMO experience and online gaming experience, I've yet to see how the JP are cliquish..unless you confuse the fact you probably refuse to learn Japanese to communicate with them as them being the ones at fault?

[Economizer]

I've yet to see how the JP are cliquish..unless you confuse the fact you probably refuse to learn Japanese to communicate with them as them being the ones at fault?

I can only base my judgements based on shouts, past experience, and a bit of a call based on how much of a language you actually need to learn to play.

Let us start with some basic observations about communication in the context of FFXI. First, the entire game uses roman letters for certain things, such as the three letter job codes. Second, certain players continue this with lettered slang which is standardized across servers and easy to understand (brb, SATA, VW, and to a lesser extent HV/NV for VW procs). Third, certain players will use auto-translate whenever the previous standards are not adequate. Fourth, roman lettering is not only standard amount the UI and 3/4 of the official languages the game supports, but only Japanese players can actually enter in Japanese characters. Last, it is far easier to plug in a phrase to an automatic translator to gain some context when it is in a character set you can actually type (roman letters are universally able to be typed for every player).

As above we see that players can speak in a way that even if they patch in the occasional word from their own language that is foreign to them, no matter what language they speak. Thus I can only assume that players unwilling to use these easy communication standards are doing so in a manner to be "cliquish" against people who don't speak their own language.

Based on shouts on my server, you can go to anywhere in Jeuno and listen to shouts and yells that have excessive usage of the three letter codes and auto-translate, the occasional English word will get in but for the most part the shouts are made to be as understandable as possible. Go to Aht Urghan where most of the shouts are Japanese and the most you might get is a 8/18 or a VW in the shout so you know the event is VW but that the people shouting don't care enough about getting people to come that they shout in an easy to understand manner. I've seen JP players come to NA shouts before where the JP didn't speak English and it was completely fine, because they were the first person to fill a particular slot (and not because the slot couldn't be filled any other way).

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Yeah, blah, blah exceptions, you mileage may vary, and your server might suck and all that. But really, no player has to understand anything other then a few abbreviations commonly used by everyone in the game in order to participate, so saying that anyone should learn a new language is obtuse. I don't expect a NA player to learn Japanese and I most certainly don't expect a JP player to learn English; WAR WHM COR PLD mean what they mean and VW means what it means, there isn't really much to be learning. People doing shouts either try to be universally understandable or they don't.

[Asymptotic]

Considering my playtime is 11pm - 4am and I play with the Japanese mostly, did you miss the "in my experience"? No sarcasm here, I've seen more cliquish behavior from NA players than I have from Japanese players when it comes to these kind of events, even to the point they'll kick out people that helped them get their shit done for someone in their shell (that didn't even have progress done) just because it's a shell mate, this could be a server specific thing.

That's why you don't ignore what someone writes, but then again, since I can actually speak and understand Japanese that helps participating with them. So unless you were trying to say Americans are a lot more welcoming then I'm confused why you'd think it was sarcasm because in all my MMO experience and online gaming experience, I've yet to see how the JP are cliquish..unless you confuse the fact you probably refuse to learn Japanese to communicate with them as them being the ones at fault?

I speak Japanese and party with them frequently. It's much more common for a NA party to let JP players in who don't speak English than it is for a NA player to be accepted to a JP party, regardless of language status. If you don't realize this, than you're living in a sheltered world.

[Babekeke]

I speak Japanese and party with them frequently. It's much more common for a NA party to let JP players in who don't speak English than it is for a NA player to be accepted to a JP party, regardless of language status. If you don't realize this, than you're living in a sheltered world.

Except that most JP players speak a lot more English than most English players speak JP.

Average English speaking player knows 'hai', 'w' and 'arigatou'.
Average JP player knows most basic words, even if the spelling is all over the place.

[Imakun]

Except that most JP players speak a lot more English than most English players speak JP.

Average English speaking player knows 'hai', 'w' and 'arigatou'.
Average JP player knows most basic words, even if the spelling is all over the place.

Yet they refuse to use English 90% of time, unless they play out of JP prime time and need to join my shout.
I'm sorry but this is what I got from playing 6 years now. I ALWAYS use auto-translator when shouting or asking another party something, and this is the common practice for almost everyone except japanese players.
From most of them I either get response in full japanese or no reply at all. If I get a reply in japanese, I tell them I can't understand it very well (I do recognize words/kanji) and that's where the conversation usually ends.
No luck in trying with romaji too, even though that's the closest thing to japanese I can type.
Shouts from japanese players are ALWAYS in full japanese, including jobs (each have its own kanji or word like Monk モンク or 召 Summoner).

Basically, unless you can type using japanese character, most of the time you'll get completely ignored.

Still I get the occasional more welcoming player that makes an effort in communicating with me, or that invites me to his party so I can lot the stupid G10 item (THANK YOU) without even replying to my question. Or someone who actually use the AT to tell me something.

Does my server suck? Probabily.
The language barrier between "westerners" and japanese players is big. I just wish more people would try and make an effort, from both sides.

[Duelle]

I speak Japanese and party with them frequently. It's much more common for a NA party to let JP players in who don't speak English than it is for a NA player to be accepted to a JP party, regardless of language status. If you don't realize this, than you're living in a sheltered world.

From what I've seen, rather than correct you when you make mistakes, they'll just say "please let's talk in english" and go from there, and several I've run into talk about having translation programs or something. I don't know if it's due to them wanting to be polite or not liking me writing their language incorrectly. As a native spanish speaker, if someone makes a mistake I'll smile and correct them because if you don't get the mistakes corrected you're never gonna learn. At least to me, the Japanese players don't seem to be inclined towards that same courtesy. 0.o;

[Zumi]

The majority of Japanese players are very xenophobic. This is a cultural thing. The reason they shout in all Japanese and rarely use auto translate is because they don't what to play with non Japanese players. They don't want to deal with the language issue for the most part, and for some its a superiority complex. Most people know that the Japanese players were not happy to have to share a server with us. NA players are much more open to inviting JPs and don't really care if they can't understand. Very low chance a JP player would invite you to their party most of the time they just ignore you if you send them a tell.

Occasionally you will have that JP who doesn't mind joining an English shout but thats because they want exp or VW loot or whatever, neither of which take much coordination.

I always thought it was kind of funny how English speaking players almost always use the auto translate when the chances are really slim that they will get a JP player to join their group.

[Midorikaze]

I still think there should be a way for non-Japanese speaking players to type in Japanese characters (hiragana/katakana) to some extent. I am teaching myself Japanese and would like to be able to communicate more efficiently. They are able to type in roman alphabet as well as their own language; it should go both ways. How else are the language barriers going to be broken down? Personally, to me, the auto-translate is horribly inadequate and needs to be updated. :/

[Elexia]

I still think there should be a way for non-Japanese speaking players to type in Japanese characters (hiragana/katakana) to some extent. I am teaching myself Japanese and would like to be able to communicate more efficiently. They are able to type in roman alphabet as well as their own language; it should go both ways. How else are the language barriers going to be broken down? Personally, to me, the auto-translate is horribly inadequate and needs to be updated. :/

SE didn't want to pay the licensing fee for western clients otherwise it would be possible.