Blue mage healing outside of party

[Scuro]

Sorry Scuro, but to me, you've entirely missed the point of blu. It's not meant to be a "dd only!" job. It's designed to be as adaptable as possible, depending on how you want to play. Take a look at the whole spell list, there's plenty that allow for varying types of blu (eg: healer, tank, dd, nuker).

... It's not like a rdm, that was designed as a mid range dd/support/healer, it's designed to excel in whatever focus/discipline you choose.

See this is how i felt about BLU when I was starting and I had hit 75 and before Abyssea, but with the dawn of new things, I became an elitist and I would still be today if I still played the game which I have stopped playing for now until vanafest. I've yet to break 99 not because I can't, but because I see no reason to other than to do VNMS for eternity until I quit the game entirely. Yet I digress, I believed this job was capable of so much and that it could be played in any way as long as the player willed it. But the realistic thing is, jobs do things better, because they do it better they are the better selection, and because they are the better selection, means your options are limited. Unless your solo'n (in which case you can do w/e) or your in a static that focuses on the "having fun" part of the game rather than focusing on achieving great things, you are natively limited to the simple roles of DD whether that be physical or magical nuker. The bottom line is, its what we do well, not great, but we can be competitive. In all other fields, buffing, debuffing, healing, tanking, we are mediocre options (varying based on mob) I know Tashan will jump in and say BLU's can tank like a boss, because thats what he's put his mind to. But thats tash for ya lol and even than he knows better than to tank the world on his BLU.

Simply put, it isn't so much our actual effectiveness we have to worry about that makes us in the positions we can assume, it is the community. We are not a healer because the community through means of logic has deemed us unfit. Even if we were able to cure, we wouldn't compete therefore we wouldn't do it. Sure it would become an option,but a terrible one at that, to a point where you might as well have the BRD/WHM cure. You've stated I should look at the spell list, too which I fully understand the versatility and was a quality I truly admired of the job. You will also notice that not a single spell transcends the party boundary nor should it. Do we really wanna go to parties like DNCs who were so tremendously useless and have to pop off curing waltzes using TP gain atmas and gear because not many LS's let DNCs actually TP on a mob? Hell no! Thats not at all what I want this job to be, or a RDM whoring out cures (which even now it doesn't do that when SCH can do it better, and WHM pretty much dominates the two). While I understand your desire for this because I mean what BLU wouldn't love SE saying "Hey you can heal out of parties now!" or "Hey that whole timer for your spells when you swap them, f*ck that!" or "Hey you know how you can only use so many spells? PFFFTTT!! GET OUTA HERE!" I mean what BLU in their right mind wouldn't be like "FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU YAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!" Yet that would also break game balance and mechanic, because we are so good at many things, why do we deserve the god mode button to be great at many things? Than what would be the point of other jobs that are so closely related to the tasks we desire to operate under?

Hell why don't we make every job in the game lead to BLU so this way if you want to be a tank, healer, DD, nuker, as long as you have the jobs leveled, when you play BLU you can play just like those respective jobs!? I'm not saying no to what you are asking for because I truly hate the idea, I'm saying no because I respect the other job classes out there that would have to compete with us and become void after us becoming a god. I'm saying no because it breaks game balance (what little game balance is left for elitists to even respect after Abyssea...).

Just seems you have this stigma that the change will force blu into a spot it doesn't fit.That is the main reason I responded to you Scuro. You're taking an inch and stretching it a mile in the 'consequences of change' department. Even with /whm, /sch, /rdm sub blu can't really hold a candle to either of the actual mages tasked with healing and support healing. The build of the spells don't really allow for it and better suit the blu up in the front line anyway.

I do not have a stigma for change, I full well support it, I just support it within the reason that benefits BLU, it its something neat for a niche group of vanadiel, its not worth the time supporting vs something that will support the greater good to which I have lended a hand to in discussion for improvement. This suggestion of curing outside party members ranks up there with no cool down timers after switching spells, and a JA that allows us to use all of our spells. These notions are either game breaking, defeat the notion of what BLU is, support a niche group, or are misguided in basic understandings of fundamental BLU mechanics.

The reason why subs of a BLU don't' make us back line is because BLU already can't compete with other healing jobs in healing, therefore, subbing healing jobs that get up to at most Cure IV (which ask any SCH P.S I'm a SCH, and RDM whether that means anything and they will tell you hell no and when do they get Cure V so they can actually start competing with WHM for healing positions). And as you stated we generate more enmity, so of course sub or not, we are not a healing class, we can save someone's ass, but thats it. If BLU were ever efficient enough to compete with WHM, this game would be broken and SCH and RDM would be pissed, if BLU were ever efficient enough to compete with SCH and RDM, SCH and RDM would be pissed because they are already on the shitlist for curing in groups, to only be one upped by a job that can do exactly what they do and do more, would shut out those jobs entirely (and trust me, we don't' want to give RDM's more ammo to bitch about because I still can't read a RDM thread with out hearing how DD RDM is coming! and how awesome those days will be for vanadiel!!!..... Ya... No). The fact of the matter is, we can cure just fine actually even better than fine, we cure good. We cure so good we are great for backing up when the shit hits the fan, which is great! Why should our responsibilities grow further in curing allies when we should already have more efficient jobs for that? Is being an emergency cure not good enough? And sorry but even though I'm in an ally group, if someone dies in the other party and I'm not on my SCH healing, I could give a shit less because A. Thats their fault, B. Thats their healer's fault, because if it was my job to cure em, I should of been in their party.

[Fyreus]

I remember when i used to go blu/dnc with tp/mp/?? atmas and drop a waltz+m.fruit combo on players for 860+ healed and thought it was kinda broken especially in a small pt but i can't complain since they've bumped our healing potential to the 1k range.

[Scuro]

I don't see how your arguing against my point at all, because I dont think you get at all what I'm saying. So I'm tapping out until different feedback comes out, or just the topic dies as it most likely will. Not that SE even considers this shit anyway for BLU adjustments so meh.

[Kitkat]

Still not seeing it unless SE ends up making sch and rdm totally pointless since the cure formula changes make their cures surpass blu. You'd have to be a pretty badly geared sch or rdm/sch to be out cured by a blu, or SE would have to make the cure formula changes also affect blu spells. As of right now I have not seen any changes beyond what the skill gave prior to update aside from how it affects Cure 1-4.

Is it possible? Yes, but not particularly probable that the norm will shift to where blu will be expected in the backline just because 2 spells end up going beyond party only. That is like saying a blu can nuke, so they should rather than melee/physical DD. A rdm or sch just brings more for the backline position and those would have to be in short/no supply for a blu to be considered a fill in at the current cure caps of their spells not to mention limited additional utility a mage sub grants them for the position. Given that, the way Scuro presents his argument comes across as frantic raving. Had something like this occurred with no change to the cure formula then I could believe it possible, but now...no.

[Duelle]

Still not seeing it unless SE ends up making sch and rdm totally pointless since the cure formula changes make their cures surpass blu. You'd have to be a pretty badly geared sch or rdm/sch to be out cured by a blu, or SE would have to make the cure formula changes also affect blu spells. As of right now I have not seen any changes beyond what the skill gave prior to update aside from how it affects Cure 1-4.

I'll just remind you that this is the game where SMN was overshadowed by its subjob for close to three years. So yes, stranger things have happened.

That is like saying a blu can nuke, so they should rather than melee/physical DD.

Except that nuking doesn't have the same value viable healing does. That aside, it is possible for a BLU to set themselves up as a healer between their spells and whatever they gain from /WHM or /SCH. If it were otherwise, we wouldn't have had so many RDMs frothing at the mouth over BLU being a potentially better healer 6 months ago due to a greater selection of spells, which would then translate to greater amounts of HP healed (note: I wasn't one of them).

Indeed, the cure changes have skewed things, but more in the positives than the negatives. Which means RDM and SCH were not the only ones who gained buffs in healing. The only real potential issue would be enmity. Well, unless cures when subbed have eaten a nerf in some way, which I haven't seen or noticed.

[Scuro]

lol or the fact that you just skew my words but eh w/e.

[Kitkat]

No, I didn't skew your words. You honestly come across as a person who took one minor detail and blew it out of proportion given the current mechanics of the game and curing power of better equipped jobs for back up healing roles.

First you automatically assume OP wants blu to be a main healer. His post was actually very blunt and to the point, no way to misinterpret "Is there ever going to be the allowance of curing outside of PT." I didn't see anything about them saying it in a way that it meant he wanted to fill a healers role, it was a genuine inquiry as to why only pt members can be cured, but not cross alliance members. Several posters voiced reasonable responses, even I offered that if that was their intentions then they would have to rely on sub due to the build of the job. You on the other hand misconstrued this and brought the absolute negative of the change to the table. Then you reiterated it again with a very perceivable agitation to the simple notion of the idea.

You then go into great detail to bring up cause and effect of unlikely situations that could arise only if various changes occurred within a timeline. IE: Points about reset time negation, access to all spells via abolishing limitations, etc. What does that have to do with an inquiry about why 2 targeting cure spells are limited to PT only? Not balance surely, otherwise you would have already looked over the fact that the two spells aren't nearly as potent as cures after the formula change of which our spells don't benefit from at all. You can't compare that to Rdm, they aren't built like blu. They have different skills and skill caps, vastly different enhancing spells in their arsenal, and very different JA. Same goes for Sch or whm. Even maxed out on diffusion it is a 10min reuse making the use of single cast buff spells pointless as they only last between 30 seconds to 5min max and are generally self cast only. Via sub you get low-grade pointless buffs that are half capacity of a primary job other than a couple buffs and status heals. This barely compares to a primary job that has full capacity of the spells they have. Why settle for refresh if you can have refresh II, why settle for ~50 resist bar spells when you can have 120, why settle for raise when you can have R2/3, why settle for p/s III/II when you can have V, why settle for heals capped at 600~700 when you can have 700~900+? If you got a whm/sch there is Boost spells too..why settle for base stats when you could get a +20 boost from them?

Seriously, did you not consider all sch, rdm, and whm bring to the table other than just curing before you went off the deep end and tossed out your worst case scenario propaganda? This isn't ToAU era, what blu can feasibly do healing wise isn't going to cut it in any endgame activity at this point and time.

Duelle, you are bringing up a point that was valid 3 years ago before a level cap raise where outside of certain circumstances and pt builds Smn was thought to be useless to a party due to its build. Same can be said for the fact that blm was cast off into the shadows after ToAU was released, but this was more so because the way the developers built the content made their utility in xp pt's dangerous to the PT, or less useful because SC+MB was too slow. There is cause and effect for each change to the game and players will adapt and adopt the easiest solution, yes. However, allowing 2 spells to go beyond PT use will not make a significant impact on the blu in the use of a healer role when Rdm or Sch get a greater benifit from the Cure lines due to having higher skill caps. Can a blu sub /sch to increase that skill cap? Yes the can, but they also don't get access to cure IV since sch doesn't learn it until 55 and as stated numerous times the new formula does not affect the blu's cure spells at all (To clarify I mean fruit/plenilune not Cure 1-4 as healing skill does still increase the base of these, but it is still less potent than primary jobs casting the same spell). They are still the same as they were prior to the formula change making them pale in comparison to a well geared rdm or sch casting Cure IV/III as needed.

[Duelle]

Duelle, you are bringing up a point that was valid 3 years ago before a level cap raise where outside of certain circumstances and pt builds Smn was thought to be useless to a party due to its build. Same can be said for the fact that blm was cast off into the shadows after ToAU was released, but this was more so because the way the developers built the content made their utility in xp pt's dangerous to the PT, or less useful because SC+MB was too slow. There is cause and effect for each change to the game and players will adapt and adopt the easiest solution, yes.

All I was saying was that it's not as outlandish or impossible as you may think. Again, stranger things have happened.

Yes the can, but they also don't get access to cure IV since sch doesn't learn it until 55 and as stated numerous times the new formula does not affect the blu's cure spells at all (To clarify I mean fruit/plenilune not Cure 1-4 as healing skill does still increase the base of these, but it is still less potent than primary jobs casting the same spell).

Ah, I see. I apologize for missing that part. I was still under the impression Healing skill boosted BLU magic the way it did before. Well, you're safe from that axe, then. =P

[Tashan]

Lol I miss you too Scuro

I wasn't going to join the debate because I think it's wasted energy. I hate the Blue Mage community right now. Not the online communities, they're sound and solid as always. But the Odin server community.

I think Blue Mage is in the worst possible state it's ever been. A condition worse than redudancy.

Fuck it.

[Draylo]

Lol I miss you too Scuro

I wasn't going to join the debate because I think it's wasted energy. I hate the Blue Mage community right now. Not the online communities, they're sound and solid as always. But the Odin server community.

I think Blue Mage is in the worst possible state it's ever been. A condition worse than redudancy.

Fuck it.

Hm really? I disagree with that.