[dev1101] Please add "Don't get the drop X times, get key item for drop" EVERYWHERE!!

[Sfchakan]

So you're saying it'll break the game if I get a guaranteed Heka's body if I kill Akvan 200 times? After I get the body I'm going to quit because what's left beyond that?

Essentially, yes, but you're exaggerating it to try to make my point sound ridiculous. We know it wouldn't be 200 because the whiners would cry up a storm. "That's too much! Why even bother changing it in the first place?!?" Eventually, you'd have everything you could want for your jobs and quit, because there is nothing else to do to advance your character.

[detlef]

I'm not asking for less than 200. I'm asking for some guarantee that the work I put in won't be for naught.

[Sfchakan]

I'm not asking for less than 200. I'm asking for some guarantee that the work I put in won't be for naught.

I think a return to a shared loot pool for new events would please a lot of people. Then your group can make it's own rules and, as long as you don't play with crooked people, you can get some reward out of your investment.

A token-based system is not the only answer.

To be honest, I don't care for the individual loot pools either.

[detlef]

Well yeah, pooling the personal drops or a decent ticket system would help a lot. I'm mainly griping at the system as it is now though. It sounds like pooling the drops is a complete non-starter for SE but the ticket system could be decent. But not Camate has described in the past. 6 tickets for a drop for something that has less than 1% chance of loading? C'mon now. That could end up being even less reasonable than what's been proposed in this thread.

[Calatilla]

I agree with the OP.

As a man who himself is literally 0/440+ On Any form of Voidwatch body (even the "easier" ones like Rubeus/Ogier's/Athos), I'm tired of this. They don't need to hand me the body after only 25 kills. But knowing that If i kill Pil 100 Times, I'll get a "pil Slip" to exchange for an item of my choice, It would keep me, and other like me, from cancelling their account.

Theres no reason for these horrible drop rates with no sense of progression at all. Every time you do the fight, You have the same chance no matter how many times you've done it before.

I think Pil is holding my Record of about 0/150 on, Kaggen close second with about 0/100.

This x100. Myself and a friend have done roughly the same amount of VW, to date he has nearly all of the body drops, and I have 0. The RNG is silly, I dont see why I should be wasting my time with VW just to find out my friend got another shiny and I got another 3 logs and 2 ores.

[Alhanelem]

I read the thread in it's entirety. You guys want guaranteed rewards for your efforts. I understand the desire. It will, though, kill the game much faster. It will happen if such systems become commonplace in XI.

No, you don't really get it. This is just a protection system for the small number of people who take far beyond the average number of tries at something before getting anything out of it. For most people this system has no effect, as they will get the drop in the average amount of time or sooner.

No drop rate should be so bad that we have people saying they went 0/400 NM kills / event runs. There is a threshold crossed where it's not worth the effort unless you're insane or on some kind of drug.

This system creates a happy medium where you can still get the drop fast if you get lucky, but there is a reasonable calculated limit on how unlucky you can get.
And if something like this isn't provided, then they need to give a serious reexamination to drop rates, because it's just silly how many times I hear about some people doing the same voidwatch run or same dynamis. OOOOh old dynamis, how I love thee. We got one dancer relic legs the day they were added to the game. I didn't get the drop, and 50 beaucadine runs and 1000s of monster kills later, I never saw another one, while at the same time a friends LS was seeing them drop left and right. I never did get them before empyrean armor came out. Apparently ~200 hours of my time wasn't enough for one single item out of thousands in the game.

You can only be opposed to this if you're one of the people that has some super rare drop and you don't want to see anyone else get it, at least not any more easily than you did.

[Karbuncle]

You can only be opposed to this if you're one of the people that has some super rare drop and you don't want to see anyone else get it, at least not any more easily than you did.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

There is absolutely zero conceivable reason to oppose a system that's only meaning would be keeping people from going well over double the expected drop rate of any given item.

This system isn't in place to hand people Items, If we assume the Drop rate on the Bodies are 1%, Me, and I know people like me, are well over 0/200 On a Single enemy, which is well past double the expected average amount of time.

Theres no reason for this! There needs to be a ceiling. Adding a ceiling that will only effect 1~5% of the people doing Voidwatch. Its not going to make bodies rain, its going to keep people from going INSANE trying to get something. Giving people a goal to reach before you get your item Isn't going to make people quit the game any more than going 0/440 On something.

People have been getting their items, and not getting their items, since the game began. The game still dwindles, but its probably dwindling faster now than it ever has before, Perhaps thats a hint people don't enjoy having drop rates divided by 18 and no progression in their events.

[Sfchakan]

No, you don't really get it..

No, you!

Really, all I'm seeing is a wall of dense. I've explained my argument multiple times. It's a VALID point. You're spouting the same stuff over and over, then assuming that someone is only opposed to your silly suggestion because they want to be jerks. I gave a great alternative: return to shared loot pools. You continue to go back to defending your idea. "NO, YOU ARE WRONG AND I AM RIGHT!!! EVERYTHING MUST BE EASY AS PIE AND HANDED TO ME! COME ON, SE!"

But, yeah, be butthurt because I once went 1/1 on O Kotes (but ignore my 1/42 on Leaping/Bounding Boots). Obviously I'm out to protect my eliteness or something. I can draw a picture of you in a full set of whatever gear you want, would that make you feel better?

I type "you guys want guaranteed rewards for your efforts..." and yet I don't get it and must be some mean old jerk trying to lord my Empress Hairpin over you? Dude, you've got problems. You're asking for GUARANTEED REWARDS for killing something X times. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE ASKING FOR. Stop being so defensive of your poorly thought-out idea and be open to better options.

Also, I would love to see legitimate proof that someone went 0/400 on anything. Karbuncle? Not someone whose numbers I would trust.

[Zinato]

Really, all I'm seeing is a wall of dense. I've explained my argument multiple times. It's a VALID point. You're spouting the same stuff over and over, then assuming that someone is only opposed to your silly suggestion because they want to be jerks. I gave a great alternative: return to shared loot pools. You continue to go back to defending your idea. "NO, YOU ARE WRONG AND I AM RIGHT!!! EVERYTHING MUST BE EASY AS PIE AND HANDED TO ME! COME ON, SE!"

Also, I would love to see legitimate proof that someone went 0/400 on anything. Karbuncle? Not someone whose numbers I would trust.

Kinggalka went 0/400 and I know its at least over 200 as I was there for at least that many of them. That aside, I fail to see how 1/200 is a worse system or a less valid suggestion then Shared loot. I assure you with near 100% certainty shared pool would result in many more bodies dropping then this would. While that does prove better for players, would that not do exactly what you wish to prevent? Players getting gear and getting bored?

I find it hard to believe any player needs only x1 r/x item from VW. With each battle taking 5 minutes x 200 is 1000 minutes cut that into hours and you get ~16.5 hours. That's of nonstop VW excluding any wait times. Including Shout time I'd guess roughly ~24 hours minimum time per piece. Being realistic each player should need minimum 2-3 pieces. Did I mention that's 600 stones you have to save or find time to get money to purchase, and assuming people have 0 to do in the game other then VW. Now, the tricky part. While it's fine and dandy that a player willing to play 24 hours gets a body the same is not true for players who play much less then that 2-7hrs a day I'd say is average. Now, players who play all day will always run out of things to do that's the nature of playing all day. Those playing 2-7 would take ~3-12 days per piece of armor. At 2-3 pieces needed ~6-36 straight days total. (I'm doing my best to use the low end of the scale, many players need many more) Again, this assumes that is all players log in for, and doesn't include any progression needed.

What am I getting at? We should be getting content fast enough to balance this. Step back for a moment and look at what we have but, exclude drop rates. In one year Dec 11 (post aby) - Dec 12 we have received 56 5-10 minute fights, and 2 easily broken caps. That's about it everything else is a tweak, or revamp. (Dynamis is the same content for the same goals just more available now, and new merits/level ups is simply leveling 4 hours to get 90-99 and another 4 per WS, or just do VW for that EXP.) Those drop rates are to buy time for a lacking system, it's nothing short of sad to see how little there is.

As a final note, the balance between players who play 16 hours a day and those playing 2 has always been an issue for developers of MMOs. This is often what forces arbitrary wait times such as those for dynamis and limbus, as well as 24 hour spawns. They put them in place so that even a player only playing once a week wont fall behind those that play all day every day. They did something like this to EXP in XIV and that was one of the most criticised aspects of XIV. This problem can never fully be fixed. And, a balance must be found between adding new content, keeping it from being to quick or to slow for both demographics. To sum everything up I think the underlying issue is lack of content, the drop rates and the need to protect them is a direct result of this. (Also, a promised drop after 200 is fair only reason I see them avoiding it is in fear of revealing the true drop rates of items, since this would be based on drop rate x2-3 or whatever.)

[Camiie]

Then you are not interested in the endgame content SE is currently offering.

I am interested in it, but with the loot distribution as is, it's a waste of my limited game time. I prefer to go where I know I can advance my character a little bit instead of going where I may have a slim chance of possibly advancing it more. I'd love to get into VW, WoE, and Neo-Nyzul if they didn't feel like they'd be a gigantic waste of time. I don't mind challenging or time consuming, but I do mind being unrewarded for my conquest of the challenge and spending of my time.

I don't expect a reward for helping friends or newbies, but I expect some form of advancement when seriously participating in endgame content. Each fight should be a step forward in some way. Why do you think guilds and linkshells came up with DKP? It's not just to sort loot, but to give members a feeling of progression while doing largely unrewarding content. Now, for better or worse, SE has taken DKP out of the equation so they need to fill that void. Maybe the OP's solution isn't perfect. Maybe it isn't even the best solution. There's obviously never going to be a perfect one, especially from SE. It's still far better than letting pure dumb luck be the sole arbiter of advancement.

I'm not really sure what there is that's appealing for you to do in the game once you "finish" with Abyssea content. Perhaps SE will bring out more casual-oriented content in the future to appeal to your demographic.

What's going to be appealing to you once you get lucky with the drops you want?