[dev1102] So what is the Ultimate Spell for RDM?

[saevel]

RDM was always used as support mainly for refresh and haste, it was also always used as the back up healer

Two spells do not a specialize make, which has been my point the entire time. We are not and never were a buffing job, we had two spells, one that restores a precious commodity at the time (MP) and the other that made melee's fight better and exponentially scaled with other buffs. That's it, nothing else, Cure IV is only enough in low damage merit parties on anything of HNM status it's just not enough, never has been, and this fact become painfully clear after level 80.

We're not invited for enfeebling because SE has gimped the crap out of enfeebling magic and refused to introduce new spells that are actually functional. Break is just a short duration earth based sleep and about as useful, addle is nerfed on HNMs, and that's it. I've said it many times and I'll keep saying it, SE needs to give us newer enfeebles that actually do something. Lower the monsters stats, lower it's TP gain, lower it's offensive damage potential and such. Give us a move that temporarily locks out the target's TP moves for a short period of time, make the target gain immense resistance after the first use that slowly tapers off over 5min.

When I state self buffing I'm referring to the ability to alter our stats to optimize for one role over another. Temper is +5~20% DA not 20% static, the RDM needs a 500 skill build and I've met very few who have, maybe it'll increase who knows. We need other spells similar to Temper that give us +FC, +Cure Pot, +MAB, ect. They should overwrite each other so as not to be overpowering. This would allow a RDM to adjust and tailor their stats to the specific role their performing.

And seriously, if you want +15~25 of a stat ask the WHM or the BRD, good luck.

[ShadowViper]

Two spells do not a specialize make, which has been my point the entire time. We are not and never were a buffing job, we had two spells, one that restores a precious commodity at the time (MP) and the other that made melee's fight better and exponentially scaled with other buffs. That's it, nothing else, Cure IV is only enough in low damage merit parties on anything of HNM status it's just not enough, never has been, and this fact become painfully clear after level 80.

We're not invited for enfeebling because SE has gimped the crap out of enfeebling magic and refused to introduce new spells that are actually functional. Break is just a short duration earth based sleep and about as useful, addle is nerfed on HNMs, and that's it. I've said it many times and I'll keep saying it, SE needs to give us newer enfeebles that actually do something. Lower the monsters stats, lower it's TP gain, lower it's offensive damage potential and such. Give us a move that temporarily locks out the target's TP moves for a short period of time, make the target gain immense resistance after the first use that slowly tapers off over 5min.

When I state self buffing I'm referring to the ability to alter our stats to optimize for one role over another. Temper is +5~20% DA not 20% static, the RDM needs a 500 skill build and I've met very few who have, maybe it'll increase who knows. We need other spells similar to Temper that give us +FC, +Cure Pot, +MAB, ect. They should overwrite each other so as not to be overpowering. This would allow a RDM to adjust and tailor their stats to the specific role their performing.

And seriously, if you want +15~25 of a stat ask the WHM or the BRD, good luck.

Yes two spells doesn't make us specialized as support, but our highest rated magic skills of enfeebling and enahcning, which we happen to have the highest of both for any job, does say we should be specialized support. The problem was it was poorly implimented, mainly because all our enfeebs came from another job plus the issue with enfeebs on nms anyhow and our enhancing was self buff only which doesn't really do anything to benifit a group setting.

If we had a spell to buff our selves before we do anything to make it more effecient than we are just another form of a sch and it slows us down from being able to quickly add support to where its needed. Temper was nice and all but again most complained about it not being able to cast it on others. If anything rdm should get a passive ability that allows self buffs to be applied to others around us, if that was the cast then DD would never complain about the rdm on front lines because they are getting buffed at the same time. As for us buffing taking over brd non of our self buffs are truly brd song replacements. As for enfeebling, even this thread was started on gaining an ultimate enfeeb that no one else has, well in that sense alone wouldn't that break the mold of us only borrowing spells from other jobs, so why is it ok to break the mold by gaining new spells and abilities that others dont have but not ok doing so in a manner that gives us a real role in the group. Just because we are given a role won't mean we wont be able to do other functions allowing us to stay a hybrid job, but one with a purpose which we lack.

[Duelle]

Yes two spells doesn't make us specialized as support, but our highest rated magic skills of enfeebling and enhancing, which we happen to have the highest of both for any job, does say we should be specialized support.

By your logic every DRK should be using Scythe because it is their A+ weapon and have highest skill rating out of every job. The reality being that every DRK worth his salt uses Great Sword.

If we had a spell to buff our selves before we do anything to make it more effecient than we are just another form of a sch and it slows us down from being able to quickly add support to where its needed.

While remaining a balanced class because we shouldn't be able to do everything at once.

Temper was nice and all but again most complained about it not being able to cast it on others.

Because some thought it would guarantee them a spot for events. I didn't want any more cycles, so I was praying that it was self-cast only.

If anything rdm should get a passive ability that allows self buffs to be applied to others around us, if that was the cast then DD would never complain about the rdm on front lines because they are getting buffed at the same time.

I could live with this, under the condition that we get Renew as mentioned in Hideka's thread. If we're gonna be a walking buff totem, then we're gonna make it real easy to keep buffs up and have it not get in the way of our melee time.

As for enfeebling, even this thread was started on gaining an ultimate enfeeb that no one else has, well in that sense alone wouldn't that break the mold of us only borrowing spells from other jobs, so why is it ok to break the mold by gaining new spells and abilities that others dont have but not ok doing so in a manner that gives us a real role in the group.

Because settling for more of the same crap we had at 75 no longer cuts it.

[Calatilla]

Two spells do not a specialize make, which has been my point the entire time. We are not and never were a buffing job, we had two spells, one that restores a precious commodity at the time (MP) and the other that made melee's fight better and exponentially scaled with other buffs. That's it, nothing else, Cure IV is only enough in low damage merit parties on anything of HNM status it's just not enough, never has been, and this fact become painfully clear after level 80.

We're not invited for enfeebling because SE has gimped the crap out of enfeebling magic and refused to introduce new spells that are actually functional. Break is just a short duration earth based sleep and about as useful, addle is nerfed on HNMs, and that's it. I've said it many times and I'll keep saying it, SE needs to give us newer enfeebles that actually do something. Lower the monsters stats, lower it's TP gain, lower it's offensive damage potential and such. Give us a move that temporarily locks out the target's TP moves for a short period of time, make the target gain immense resistance after the first use that slowly tapers off over 5min.

When I state self buffing I'm referring to the ability to alter our stats to optimize for one role over another. Temper is +5~20% DA not 20% static, the RDM needs a 500 skill build and I've met very few who have, maybe it'll increase who knows. We need other spells similar to Temper that give us +FC, +Cure Pot, +MAB, ect. They should overwrite each other so as not to be overpowering. This would allow a RDM to adjust and tailor their stats to the specific role their performing.

And seriously, if you want +15~25 of a stat ask the WHM or the BRD, good luck.

You just described SCH, which is what RDM should have been from the start.

[Duelle]

You just described SCH, which is what RDM should have been from the start.

Considering that SCH can't melee, not really. Sure, they got the "use a spell to open a Skillchain" thing we should have gotten as a lv75 Job Ability, but still.

[Calatilla]

Considering that SCH can't melee, not really. Sure, they got the "use a spell to open a Skillchain" thing we should have gotten as a lv75 Job Ability, but still.

I was referring to changing stats to fit the role, higher cure potency, more Matk etc, which is essentially what SCH does.

[Duelle]

I was referring to changing stats to fit the role, higher cure potency, more Matk etc, which is essentially what SCH does.

SCH does it through JAs, we would do it through spells. We also wouldn't have additional mechanics tied to our spells. On concept it works, and even fits the whole "RDM uses magic to enhance themselves" bit.

[saevel]

You just described SCH, which is what RDM should have been from the start.

SCH should of never been made a job, everything it does should of been broken up between WHM, BLM and RDM. SE was trying to make a better sub for WHM then /SMN and ended up creating an entirely new job out of it.

[Duelle]

SCH should of never been made a job, everything it does should of been broken up between WHM, BLM and RDM. SE was trying to make a better sub for WHM then /SMN and ended up creating an entirely new job out of it.

I guess, though I don't have much of an issue with SCH (I actually enjoy the fact that it's a pure caster, and always figured it would take that spotlight from our job to allow us to move on). The only real problem I have with that job is that we should have gotten Immanence under a name more fitting to RDM on a 1 minute cooldown. As a job ability it pretty much goes to waste on SCH. Kinda pointless that we have magic burst bonus but no way to guarantee skillchains to take advantage of it. Especially so in a setting where self-skillchains are not exactly uncommon.