[dev1102] So what is the Ultimate Spell for RDM?

[ShadowViper]

The job in concept doesn't and should not have a singular role, but instead have several roles to choose from given the job's versatility. The problem is that we can't openly choose our roles because of shoddy role distribution. You buff support and the melee side gets dumped on, you buff melee and the support side gets dumped on. Sure, my petty side says "well, they (support) had theirs for close to six years, now it's our (melee) turn", but in the spirit of fairness both sides should be getting some sort of improvement.
Considering RDM borrows from other jobs, this is not surprising nor a bad thing.
You want to take us back to where we were at lv75 instead of letting our job move forward. I get that it's easier to get invited as support, but we've already had to put up with that since the cap was 75. I don't want RDM to go back to what it was then.

Simple MMO mechanics when a job doesn't fit in a role because its too diverse its usually not used. Regardless of where they buff are ability if we dont have a role in the group we aren't going to get invited for most events.

Yes we were never the aoe crowd control but we should have been on the Magic side not blm, we are the enfeebling specialist NOT blm. SCH too borrows from both jobs yet is more desierable for more events than RDM. Why cause it role is truly to be back up to either sides and is the DOT specialist (dmg/healing). RDM is suppose to be the enfeebling and enhancing specialist yet all our enfeebs minus merits are capable of being done by other jobs and most our enhancing is self target only, even sch is beter in these areas because they are capable of AOE'n most the spells even thought it doesn't get them natively.

At 75 we were close enough to the main jobs we are "borrowing" from that we could help support and fill in those roles, now that lvs have increased that gap has gotten bigger and SCH has stayed closer to those jobs, which is where it should be. As for taking the job back to where the job was at 75 as a support then yeah, look at our main skills - enfeebling and enhancing - these are support skills not dd not healing yet again because we got so focused on "borrowing" from other jobs we have falling behind other jobs in both those areas because we don't get spells that show that we are the specialist for those fields.

Now that jobs and roles are being rebalanced we now have the chance to balance the job to whats already in game, we can't be main healers thats whms role, we can't be main nukers thats BLM, we are not dd and we are not tanks. So with the skill set that we have had from the beginning where is our role, back to enfeebler and enahcer who can help with healing/nuking/dd/tanking not replace them.

[ShadowViper]

That's BRD and partially BLM (crowd control). At no point in FFXI's history did RDM ever get an aoe buff nor and aoe crowd control ability. The only party support ability RDM's ever had is Refresh, Haste and Cure IV. That's it, nothing else. WHM is the better support, BLM the better crowd control and BRD the better buffer. RDM's only got put into the party support role because WHM's had become scarce for XP pt's back in 04 and RDM was the next best thing.

SE needs to add new abilities and spells, buff out our enfeebling capacity and self buffing capacity, exactly as they stated they would.

RDM was always used as support mainly for refresh and haste, it was also always used as the back up healer. It was extremely rare for you to be asked to come cause we need an enfeebler, rarer to be asked to come as a nuker and non existent to come to melee. Yes I hated being that 3 spell mage stuck in an endless cycle of refresh/haste and thats why having AOE versions of most of our enhancing spells would be a nice change it would allow us to do more and be benificial to the group giving a true desire to have a rdm in group. Most our Self casting enhancing stack with bards songs and we have some enhancing abilties that even bards dont get.

Yes we started taking over the roles of healer with WHMs in shortage and because with our endless mp pool and fast cast ability we could keep up with healing just as well as a whm this again is why SE should never give RDM cure 5 to prevent this from happening again.

As for crowd control yes thats partially brds ability, bard though can't AOE para, silence, grav, ..... RDM SHOULD be able to do all this. BLM yes got breakga and sleepga but why that never made sense we are the enfeebling specialist not blm, blm got AOE nukes (should have bioga and aoe dark based spells) just as WHM got aoe healing and divine spells since thats what those jobs specialize in. Yet, both these jobs step all over our main focus of enfeebling and enhancing and get AOE of that too. What makes more sense sending in your main heal into AOE dmg range to buff your party or send in the RDM (who should be melee'n anyhow to be maximizing his role) to do the same buff.
Again just because it never has been that way doesn't mean it can't be changed and fixed now especially since thats what SE is doing anyhow with rebalancing.

We need more self buffing capacity, are you serious. Giving us more SELF anything isn't going to help us in a party situation and this goes back to the issue SE had with RDM being too OP we were able to buff ourselves into being self sufficient and able to solo things that we were most likely never meant to, fun as it was doesn't help us for any group event. As for abilities no again, any ability would come with a nasty timer and we were designed to be able to jump from one action to another (thus lack of a ton of abilities). An ability I have seen mentioned for years from rdm would be allowing us to cast a self target buff on others (similiar to sch) if this was done then at best it would be 3 min timer, what would the point be so every few minutes you get to reapply that buff on another player? And again the idea of rdm being able to quickly adapt a situation and cast whats needed again would no longer apply.

[Kristal]

We need maor Gain-CHR if we're going to charm the SE devs...

[ShadowViper]

We need maor Gain-CHR if we're going to charm the SE devs...

Boost-CHR (we should be buffing everyone before a WHM who should be focused on healing)

[saevel]

RDM was always used as support mainly for refresh and haste, it was also always used as the back up healer

Two spells do not a specialize make, which has been my point the entire time. We are not and never were a buffing job, we had two spells, one that restores a precious commodity at the time (MP) and the other that made melee's fight better and exponentially scaled with other buffs. That's it, nothing else, Cure IV is only enough in low damage merit parties on anything of HNM status it's just not enough, never has been, and this fact become painfully clear after level 80.

We're not invited for enfeebling because SE has gimped the crap out of enfeebling magic and refused to introduce new spells that are actually functional. Break is just a short duration earth based sleep and about as useful, addle is nerfed on HNMs, and that's it. I've said it many times and I'll keep saying it, SE needs to give us newer enfeebles that actually do something. Lower the monsters stats, lower it's TP gain, lower it's offensive damage potential and such. Give us a move that temporarily locks out the target's TP moves for a short period of time, make the target gain immense resistance after the first use that slowly tapers off over 5min.

When I state self buffing I'm referring to the ability to alter our stats to optimize for one role over another. Temper is +5~20% DA not 20% static, the RDM needs a 500 skill build and I've met very few who have, maybe it'll increase who knows. We need other spells similar to Temper that give us +FC, +Cure Pot, +MAB, ect. They should overwrite each other so as not to be overpowering. This would allow a RDM to adjust and tailor their stats to the specific role their performing.

And seriously, if you want +15~25 of a stat ask the WHM or the BRD, good luck.

[Duelle]

Simple MMO mechanics when a job doesn't fit in a role because its too diverse its usually not used. Regardless of where they buff are ability if we dont have a role in the group we aren't going to get invited for most events.

Because most players tunnel vision themselves to see one role per job, leaving jobs like RDM in the dark. There's a reason MMO design has moved in the direction of having hybrid classes that can put focus on one of several possible roles. It pisses less people off and opens up freedom of gameplay in group content. SE and RDM just need to be dragged into the new century of hybrid design and drop the BS.

At 75 we were close enough to the main jobs we are "borrowing" from that we could help support and fill in those roles, now that lvs have increased that gap has gotten bigger and SCH has stayed closer to those jobs, which is where it should be. As for taking the job back to where the job was at 75 as a support then yeah, look at our main skills - enfeebling and enhancing - these are support skills not dd not healing yet again because we got so focused on "borrowing" from other jobs we have falling behind other jobs in both those areas because we don't get spells that show that we are the specialist for those fields.

False. At 75 you brought a RDM if you needed heals+haste+refresh, needed CS+Stun or needed someone to help the BLM with crowd control in dynamis. Our swords mattered little, as did our nukes.

Again, you want the invites that come with having something very few people are willing to do (the number of people who rode the Refresh gravy train far outnumbered the people who would willingly level BRD). I don't want our job to go down that route again. Not without proper alternatives within RDM for the front liners and the melee camp.

When I state self buffing I'm referring to the ability to alter our stats to optimize for one role over another. Temper is +5~20% DA not 20% static, the RDM needs a 500 skill build and I've met very few who have, maybe it'll increase who knows. We need other spells similar to Temper that give us +FC, +Cure Pot, +MAB, ect. They should overwrite each other so as not to be overpowering. This would allow a RDM to adjust and tailor their stats to the specific role their performing.

I like this idea. I'd preffer JAs and modes instead of actual spells, but I wouldn't mind getting something that gave us more MAB or Cure Potency and such.

Give us a move that temporarily locks out the target's TP moves for a short period of time

This falls under absolutes. We need less of this and more of actual debuffs.

[saevel]

I was just throwing idea's out there. Also after that I said the monster should gain immense resistance that would taper off after 5 min, thus it would be impossible to spam that spell. You cast it and for a brief period of time, 5 ~ 15s maybe, the target wouldn't use TP moves. Gives a short breather to everyone and precious time to heal / remove status ailments or whatever. Again just an idea. I really want stat down spells better then the elemental enfeebles.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I like this idea. I'd preffer JAs and modes instead of actual spells, but I wouldn't mind getting something that gave us more MAB or Cure Potency and such.

We need this in the "actual" spells Faith and Bravery (only one can be up), I definitely don't want JA's as there is no real need, and spells can gain the benefit of being improved on by more enhancing which is more suited to RDM.

Could be:

Faith
Increases Magical damage and accuracy.
Lv. 99 RDM

Magic Accuracy: 10~25
Magic Attack Bonus: 5~15

Bravery
Increases melee accuracy and attack.
Lv. 99 RDM

Accuracy: 5~15
Attack: 5~15%

While I think RDM should get more buffs for party members these two would fall in line with Temper and Enspells in that they can only augment the RDM's strength.

These can be later increased via gear change on cast, same with temper which I'd personally give a 5% Chance of Triple Attack on under the guise of Augments "Temper".

Personally I'd go along the line of RDM gaining semi-strong spells to fall in line with: Making themselves demi-gods while potentially adding a tier II weaker version in line with Phalanx II for party targetable Such as Temper II: 5~10% DA.

As for not much space left for new spells that's down to SE to remove said limitation, not work around it.

[saevel]

Now to add to what you said DH. Introduce a debuff the RDM casts that acts like DNC's sambas. Every melee who hits the monster would get a buff or their attacks would be modified in some fashion. This would fall perfectly in line with what SE said about making other people strong by debuffing the monster, but somehow I doubt they'll do this. I can dream.

[Ophannus]

SE said they wouldn't add stances or spells that buff one aspect of magic and reduce physical abilities or vice versa. They also stated they wouldn't want to add abilities or spells that add mutually exclusive enhancements to either physical or magic. SCH is the class that chooses between white or black magic speciality. RDM, SE said doesn't choose between white and black magic or physical, RDM was supposed to be able to access all of it simultaneously albeit weaker. So SCH gets stronger WHM spells and BLM spells because they have almost no physical prowess. Since RDM has better physical capabilities, we have weakened spells or whatever. So to sum up, SE would never implement a stance where a RDM's abilities in one aspect get boosted at the cost of another(i.e like dark arts/light arts/hasso-type abilities where Phys+/Magic- or Magic+/Phys-)