New enhancing spell for RDM to promote party support.

[saevel]

I just can't comprehend why they gave RDM self-cast versions of enhancing magic and gave WHM AoE versions. They keep calling WHM they healing specialist yet they get like 70% of our spells in AoE form. Why not let WHM only have AoE Cures/Heals, let BLM have only AoE nukes and let RDM be the specialist of AoE debuffs and AoE enhancing? If RDM had Hastega/Protectra/Shellra/Bar-a and Enspell-ga we'd garner more worth in parties yet for some reason they gave AoE's to other classes and left RDM at self-cast.

I asked these questions as I agree that we should be able to buff other melee's near us. SE's answer was they wanted WHM to be the specialize in AoE buffing with white magic. Which I took to mean that they don't want RDM's putting out buffs on other party members.

Our melee is a damn sight better then F-/D-, near NIN / THF / DNC group depending on target. Most people got this image stuck in their head of an AF wearing RDM swinging an underleveled sword. What RDM is lacking is uber gear, I have pretty much the best melee set you can build for RDM and my body if from level 75. Parts of my WS set are from 75, and most newer gear was slightly upgrades from older gear. We were kept off the truly awesome stuff (Toci / Athos's / ect..) and put on the every mage gear which absolutely sucks.

For example, I looked over the Rub set and other then the legs, it all sucks for RDM. It's literally just a weak version of our Emp +2 set, basically an enfeebling set for WHM, BLM and SCH. This is the crap I get pissed at, if your going to put RDM on a mage set then it better be a damn good mage set (like Emp) now some crappy set that stats worse then those from 90.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Our melee is a damn sight better then F-/D-, near NIN / THF / DNC group depending on target.

No, not really... no.

[saevel]

No, not really... no.

Yes, really yes. I can demonstrate if you want to come to Lakshmi.

I looked over what you did last time you tried to craftermath it up, and you used moten's PLD template and butchered the heck out of it. You then created an imaginary NM to fight against and nerfed the PLD while buffing the BLU to get your 30% figure. You deliberately adjusted the attack / defense values so that the PLD would be under 1.0 ratio while the BLU wouldn't.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Except Mot has a Rdm Nin and Dnc sheet...? I only used a pld sheet because one for Rdm hadn't been made yet, or are you talking about blu? For nin/thf/dnc vs Rdm I used fodder mobs lol, Rdm is still behind all of them. Try again. You compare Emp Rdm to shit tier Thf/nin/dnc and think the job is 'keeping up', give it up.

And I've never used any imaginary NM, the highest monster I ever compare Rdm to is Bukhis/Qilin (Even Qilin you shouldn't be meleeing). Anything else and you shouldn't be meleeing it.

You know what all 3 of those 3 can do Rdm can't? /War and still have dual wield, that's why cratio is low on high defense mobs. I don't assume outside buffs/debuffs, hold that against me. I also assume the other jobs aren't getting Dia3.

Oh and btw, even if you had Ageha and Dia3 on Bukhis, you still get crushed in DPS by all 3.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Blah! Blah! Melee nonsense in an Enhancing thread. Blah! Blah!

Like I said, unless we can keep on topic SE will always ignore RDM, so Thanks!

[saevel]

Except Mot has a Rdm Nin and Dnc sheet...? I only used a pld sheet because one for Rdm hadn't been made yet, or are you talking about blu? For nin/thf/dnc vs Rdm I used fodder mobs lol, Rdm is still behind all of them. Try again. You compare Emp Rdm to shit tier Thf/nin/dnc and think the job is 'keeping up', give it up.

And I've never used any imaginary NM, the highest monster I ever compare Rdm to is Bukhis/Qilin (Even Qilin you shouldn't be meleeing). Anything else and you shouldn't be meleeing it.

You know what all 3 of those 3 can do Rdm can't? /War and still have dual wield, that's why cratio is low on high defense mobs. I don't assume outside buffs/debuffs, hold that against me. I also assume the other jobs aren't getting Dia3.

Oh and btw, even if you had Ageha and Dia3 on Bukhis, you still get crushed in DPS by all 3.

You made a level 107 Buhkis outside of Abyssea. It was a fictional monster, Buhkis isn't level 107, we fought him at level 85. You put him at that level to create additional LCF to force the RDM under 1.0 Ratio. At 99 with ~650 attack vs a lv 107 570 defense mob your Ratio is going to be so low that anything with zerk is going to deal 20~30% more melee damage period. THF can't go /WAR without giving up DWIII which is a 13.6% boost in it's melee Damage. But with high defense targets the damage from zerk means more.

Your assumptions were based on the PLD vs BLU you passed off as RDM vs BLU was so BS it ruined your credibility. The attack difference from a well geared BLU vs a geared RDM is approx 50.

Anyhow time for work but everyone here should know your comparisons are complete BS due to your unrealistic targets and manipulating the attack / defense sections.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Thf has DwIII at 99 rofl, do you even know what you're talking about?

I didn't know Bukhis's level at the time (nor was a Rdm sheet in existence, thanks for bringing up something from a few months ago), hence I was using a Pld sheet...Assuming you could fight him outside (he's a T mob), guess what, you still get beat hard by Any of those 3. Thanks for bringing the attack difference up though, it's not like Blu doesn't have superiour traits, gearsets, skill, can /war and still maintain Dw3, or the ability to self SC with spells -ohwait it can. Or are you going to recant your statement of Rdm being decent, because it's not even good at killing fodder mobs.

EDIT: other than the defense value I had to geusstimate back then, I didn't change anything extraodrinary on the sheet at all. Rdm has B skill while Pld is A+, so that had to be changed. Enlight has an accuracy bonus, so that also had to be removed (I couldn't think of anything to do about recasting enspells sooner, so I just left it). That's the only things I seriously modified. If you're going to call that butchering I'm done responding to you.

[Duelle]

Blah! Blah! Melee nonsense in an Enhancing thread. Blah! Blah!

Like I said, unless we can keep on topic SE will always ignore RDM, so Thanks!

Considering one constantly feeds off the other, it ain't gonna happen. If it makes you feel any better, I was miffed when the guys here invaded the melee thread. Shoe's on the other foot and so on.

[saevel]

Thf has DwIII at 99 rofl, do you even know what you're talking about?

I didn't know Bukhis's level at the time (nor was a Rdm sheet in existence, thanks for bringing up something from a few months ago), hence I was using a Pld sheet...Assuming you could fight him outside (he's a T mob), guess what, you still get beat hard by Any of those 3. Thanks for bringing the attack difference up though, it's not like Blu doesn't have superiour traits, gearsets, skill, can /war and still maintain Dw3, or the ability to self SC with spells -ohwait it can. Or are you going to recant your statement of Rdm being decent, because it's not even good at killing fodder mobs.

EDIT: other than the defense value I had to geusstimate back then, I didn't change anything extraodrinary on the sheet at all. Rdm has B skill while Pld is A+, so that had to be changed. Enlight has an accuracy bonus, so that also had to be removed (I couldn't think of anything to do about recasting enspells sooner, so I just left it). That's the only things I seriously modified. If you're going to call that butchering I'm done responding to you.

Considering I was able to reproduce your results by playing with the defense values and LCF I know exactly what you did. You didn't include any of the RDM's self buffs.

Also Moten's current sheet doesn't even have Gain-XXX spells on it. Granted RDM melee comparisons are not in-demand and I figure they got more things to do first.

Geared BLU has 50 more attack then RDM, this is from gear and +10 from attack bonus. This isn't debatable, I happen to be a very well geared BLU with all Toci's and all, it happens to be my most played job. I know ~exactly~ what that job has for gear and if I want to see the difference it's as simple as walking into the MH and job swapping. Both jobs eat the same food and receive the same buffs. BLU has much better WS gear, RDM can buff a single stat by 25 The difference between the two comes down to Attack, the BLU can use Zerk for a 25% bonus 3/5 of the time, RDM can lower the targets defense by ~6% more then Dia II, if it's a pure test then the RDM gets a full 17.6% attack bonus (or 15% defense down) which actually barely beats out zerk buts till puts it under BLU.

The only way you can get 30% is if you carefully chose your LCF and defense values such that the BLU gets over 1.0 and the RDM gets under 1.0.

[saevel]

Elvann 99 RDM/NIN, 12 STR merits 8 sword merits 5% crit merits
Unbuffed no Food
STR:103+21
DEX: 84+24
Attack: 551
Haste:25%
DA: +10%
TA: +2%
Crit: +5%
Store TP:+10

W/ Bison Steak (+6 STR +90 attack@500 costs 5.5K each lasts 3hr)
STR: 103+27
DEX: 84+24
Attack: 644

W/Buffs
STR:103+52
DEX:84+24
Attack: 656
Dia III applied: 771.4
or
STR:103+27
DEX:84+49
Attack: 644
Dia III applied: 757.3

The rest

DA: +30%
Enspell +30 (29.15 at capped magic accuracy)
DW: 30%

99 Elvann BLU/WAR same as above
STR:103+31
DEX: 80+72
Attack: 581
Haste:24% (BLU needs to wear AF body, Zelus Tiara or Octh+1 to reach 25% haste)
DA: +26%
TA: +6%
Crit: +8% (Athos's boots and tights)
Critical Attack: +4% (A.Tights)
Store TP:+16

W/Food
STR:103+37
DEX: 80+72
Attack: 674
DW: 30%

Berserk:
Attack:820
Averaged as: 761.6

JT's set were DWIII, TA, Store TP I, Auto-Refresh, Utility Spells were Battery Charge, M.Fruit, A.Burst and WoP for 52/60 remaining for whatever else is needed possibly sTP II. Could disable utility spells but lose out on self healing and aoe erase.

757 vs 761.6

That is the difference. No way in hell are you getting a 30% difference between those two unless your doing some really dirty manipulation. BLU wins hands down in WS gear, it has a monstrous amount of DEX due to Toci's, Oth Head and Atho's set. Both jobs can achieve capped critical hit rate on the "outside Abyssea Bukhis during WS. BLU will hit cap crits on anything with 102 or less AGI during melee, at 112 or more that tappers off. RDM on the other hand only hits cap on things with 83 or less AGI, fodder basically.

What you did was give either give the BLU Dia III (or just Dia II from someone else) or simply not buff the RDM. You can get the BLU to capped haste by buying a ~6mil head piece or by switching out the body / head, which would yield less damage due to the DA/TA and dDex involved.

This is all gear I actually have, and not even in the most remote elitist mind can it be called gimp or average.