Suggestion: Break the game, SE

[Zinato]

Supply and Demand, if just being common was all it took, Ancient currency should be 100g. Also be glad its 120k i've seen as high as 150k with 130k being average.

[Aquilla]

FrankReynolds, I like ya. d(^-^)b

I don't think I'm the only one here who's waiting to hear about their plan for the future. The roadmap runs out in march, and we were promised a lot of revamping of old content, new content, and all sorts of stuff.

In fact, it's probably a pretty chilly day in Hades, since the prism staff announcement hit the forums -- though I'm not singing it's praises until I see it completed and find out how hard it'll be to get it.

It's an example of a good idea, but nothing in XI is a bad idea in and of itself. What gets messed up is the execution, and this absolute veneration of old coupled with a sheer fear of anything new. How many times, in the past, has the playerbase decried the practice of keeping the old end-game stuff as the best, while the new end-game stuff was simply sidegrades?

Not that I'm saying that the focus needs to be on epic loots. I'd love more fun in the game. I'd love meaningful activities other than killing bosses for loot. All it takes is a sense of progression and a rewards that I'm not going to turn around and NPC for content to be meaningful.

[Fupafighter]

Supply and Demand, if just being common was all it took, Ancient currency should be 100g. Also be glad its 120k i've seen as high as 150k with 130k being average.

The reason you see the 120k+ is because NOONE IS BUYING THEM. lol.....Make sense now?

[Mahoro]

That's a very good suggestion. Personally, I would love to see something like that implemented. You're not the only one who feels shafted by spending time and effort helping the one or two people benefit. Not only that but the external point system is kind of stupid. It's too easy to manipulate against a person or for a person in terms of getting/not getting drops.

But seriously, a lot of people would be more inclined to help others if they too got something in return. Yeah, person A gets the gear/item/whatever but if person B, C, D get a point or some sort of small reward that helps them out then suddenly you have a friendlier environment.

Sadly, the game has never really been 100% like this, however cool it would be if it were. For most events, players are forced to create their own rewards to incentivize people to help them. That is how DKP systems came about, where at least if you don't walk away from an event with that drop you want, you will earn a few points for the next time. I agree that some systems people have come up with are able to be manipulated. There are whole schools of thought on which points system works better than others.

[Scuro]

I have a suggestion! Take all of the suggestions to break the game, and throw that away where it belongs, because thats what killed the game in the first place! I mean it was so dumbed down for the noobs in this game that want the game broken, that it lost the thrill and elitism that made the game a challenge. I know... I should practically design this game anymore! lol

[Shipp]

The guy is trying really hard to be nice to you despite the fact that your just ragging on him and adding nothing to the conversation. It makes you look pretty silly. A lot of people think the game is going in a bad direction as of late. The beauty of a MMO is that it can be reinvented and expanded on without any limit other than profitability. That means that the game can be reinvented again and again for 50 years, or neglected and shutdown in 6 months.

A lot of people thought the game went in a horrible direction when they raised the cap after years of saying they never would. A lot of people thought the game went in a horrible direction when they made XP a joke. A lot of people thought the game went in a horrible direction when "x" happened.

I'm not ragging on him for nothing. He has his fingers in his ears going, "Lalalalalala we need a broken game where we can godmode, because that's fun, and a lot of people think so." Not everyone liked Abyssea. I, personally, do. However, Abyssea is also the reason why "a lot" of people quit. If they go the Abyssea route, they're going to lose players. If they continue to go in the Voidwatch direction, they're going to lose players.

My point is that this game is beyond its prime. It's naive of Aquilla and anyone else who thinks that anything SE does with this game is going to attract some massive amount of brand new players. It won't. It's an old game. The best thing that can happen is to slow the number of cancellations and hope to attract some of the older players back to the game.

For every person you claim doesn't like the current direction, someone else can claim that the same amount of players didn't like the Abyssea direction.

I for one would like to see a radical shift and a reinvention. There are still thousands of walls that can be broken down in this game. The old FFXI was fun and while there was a lot of bad stuff, it was overall a great game. I don't want to go back to it anymore than I want to go back to the 8th grade though. Crazy long grinds for stuff that added virtually invisible gains to your character are a thing of the past and should stay that way.

Why can't people who want those long grinds have them? People like you and me who don't want to mess with it 6+ years later have easy-peasy Abyssea where AF items just drop from the sky. Or is this boiling down to the same issue plaguing WoW where people want the best rewards while only putting in minimal effort?

People who don't want to have to put up with the old-school style do not have to do it. It's there for those who want to do it. I don't care for chocobo raising nor racing. I don't do them, I don't claim that the direction should have been changed because it doesn't suit my tastes. Then again, I'm sure this will be seen as not "equal" since it's as I thought, this boils down to people wanting access to the best gear possible without having to do the old-school grind.

There's no reason SE cannot implement both Aby-style rewards/events AND VW-style rewards/events for the people who want to do them. This does not have to be an either/or, and so far, most people arguing for Aby-style events aren't just wanting them to be added also, they want ONLY Aby-style events.

EDIT: Funny side note... he clearly knew what RNG stands for. Good job explaining it to him for no reason though.

I know he knew what it meant.

didn't say I had a problem with the "dice" (not going to use RNG since that's also the abreviation for ranger), just pointing out that the only real risk left is plain old dumb luck.

I explained it since he wanted to play semantics. See, there was a reason. Please stop the assumptions.

[Aquilla]

I'm not terribly smart, Shipp, and I really don't know anything about making video games, but it just seems to me that you keep saying 'The game is fine the way it is.' That's okay, really.

I'm not saying 'Godmode us'. I'm not saying 'Have only aby, and no VW.' I'm not saying 'Chocobo raising should have the best rewards in the game because i likes me some colorful chicken'.

What I said was, aby was fun because it broke the game. I'm not the only one who's noted how aby broke the game -- how it undid all the barriers that they told us were in place. It gave better gear than old endgame. It gave us a stupid amount of stats. It even gave us a godmode button in form of the primeval brew.

How long did zilart remain as THE Expansion for endgame? Toau came, WoTG came, and we got sidegrades. We got content that was half-baked and unfinished, that didn't give good enough of a reward for the effort put in.

Aby came along, broke all that, and it was fun. Were there complaints? Sure. A lot of them. But overall, it gave a breath of fresh air to the game. It wasn't perfect. It was, however, new.

What I am championing is the cause of the new. I'm tired of the balancing act -- tweak this, tweak that, sidegrade here, miniscule update there. Look at the root of the most of the complaints here and you'll find that a lot of people are saying exactly that.

Yeah, breaking the game means making players a lot more powerful, but it also means opening up new venues to test us. Tweaking means leaving a lot of unused, dead content. I don't know that breaking the game would attract hordes of new players. However, tweaking and balancing won't -- and its bound to frustrate a lot more.

Hey, I'm glad that you think everything is okay. I'm glad that you're accepting of status quo. You're allowed to have that opinion.

I think SE isn't trying very hard to do their best -- and since we are paying customers, we are certainly allowed to tell them why we feel that way.

Here's what I believe:

This game has a ton of content that could be made enjoyable by better rewards/easier accessibility/newness.

This game has enough uniqueness and individuality to be a viable MMO even today.

Am I wrong? Frequently, but I don't think it's about this.

[Anapingofness]

Sadly, the game has never really been 100% like this, however cool it would be if it were. For most events, players are forced to create their own rewards to incentivize people to help them. That is how DKP systems came about, where at least if you don't walk away from an event with that drop you want, you will earn a few points for the next time. I agree that some systems people have come up with are able to be manipulated. There are whole schools of thought on which points system works better than others.

Well that's kind of my point. Basically they do need to change their system. There are plenty of things they can add so that the distribution is more equal. A DKP type system is just one solution that can be added in relatively easily.

Don't get me wrong. I'm fine with working for something, if I wasn't I wouldn't have been with this game as long as I have been. I'm also fine with things being really hard to get. For example, mythic weapons. That's all rainbows and star shine! However that route should be a choice. If player A wants to work for over a year or three to get a piece of gear then you know what that's his God given right. However, don't make that the rule for everyone else. Everyone else shouldn't have to suffer through that agony to get a marginally decent piece of gear.

[FrankReynolds]

For every person you claim doesn't like the current direction, someone else can claim that the same amount of players didn't like the Abyssea direction.

Fair enough, but you can't undo abyssea now. It's clear that people do not want to go back. Saying "hey we promise that long grinds and botting are gonna make a come back" isn't going to get the old crowd who liked that stuff back. the fact of the matter is that many of the people who didn't like abyssea initially, came around and like it better now. I am one of them.

Why can't people who want those long grinds have them? People like you and me who don't want to mess with it 6+ years later have easy-peasy Abyssea where AF items just drop from the sky. Or is this boiling down to the same issue plaguing WoW where people want the best rewards while only putting in minimal effort?

Actually it's the complete opposite. Epic mode is readily available to anyone who cares for a challenge. The fact of the matter is that none of these people who say they want a challenge are willing to sacrifice gear for some challenge. You are free to go low man VWNMs with no temps, and nothing but pups and bsts in your group, but nobody does that because they really don't give a crap about the challenge. They want the gear. Truth is that if SE added a whole bunch of NMS and content that gave no gear, but added all sorts of stupid visual effects to your character, nobody would do it unless it was super easy. As a matter of fact, I bet if you look through one of the wikis, you can actually find that there are a shit load of Tough NMs, and quests that no one cares about because they only want loot.

Want to be fair? make the gear readily available to anyone who is willing to put in a moderate effort like abyssea. Then create a bunch of afterglow style epic long quests and SUPER hard mode NMS that award no gear, but give people shit like glows, and flames, and shiny stuff. Watch 99.999% of the people who said they needed more challenge ignore the hard stuff that doesn't drop gear just like they do now.

Or better yet make the event so that you can adjust the difficulty, but the drops stay the same. See how many people try to do it on hard mode.

Hint: you can already do this by not using atmas. I've done it against a few NMS just for shiggles. Have you?

People who don't want to have to put up with the old-school style do not have to do it. It's there for those who want to do it. I don't care for chocobo raising nor racing. I don't do them, I don't claim that the direction should have been changed because it doesn't suit my tastes. Then again, I'm sure this will be seen as not "equal" since it's as I thought, this boils down to people wanting access to the best gear possible without having to do the old-school grind.

"hey, nobody is forcing you to do it."

Yeah, that ought to sell some subscriptions.

I explained it since he wanted to play semantics. See, there was a reason. Please stop the assumptions.

Seriously, go reread what he wrote a few times. your way off base.

[FrankReynolds]

Now back on the topic: They could absolutely rebuild this game, and draw new customers with expansions, graphics updates, and better play scaled towards more casual gamers. That obviously can't happen on a shoestring budget with like 3 coders. Drawing new players requires advertising and marketing... and having something new to advertise and market.