[dev1087] Job Adjustments: White Mage

[Tazz]

Making this spell EXTREMELY difficult to obtain is just stupid and makes me very angry. As a mage I pride myself on having all the spells available for my level as I did when I leveled my characters jobs pre-abyssea. Making a spell as good as araise for a job role as WHM seems very stupid. The MP and recast time along keep this spell in check. making it only needed for say a tank job or possible another healer role who died and needs to be unweak sooner than the rest of the DD's or support jobs. and sadly seeing as my WHM is not my MAIN job i will never see or pay the probable outrageous price for this scroll. Hence I will never be asked to come or WHM to events even though I am a competent and well-geared WHM. Making spells "extremely hard to obtain" is like making a melee's job abilities to enhance their skills "extremely hard to obtain". Melee jobs get their job abilities which they use to enhance their role in groups naturally, making a spell which mages need to use to enhance their role be "extremely hard to obtain" is not right. please fix this...

[Genoxd]

Making spells "extremely hard to obtain" is like making a melee's job abilities to enhance their skills "extremely hard to obtain". Melee jobs get their job abilities which they use to enhance their role in groups naturally, making a spell which mages need to use to enhance their role be "extremely hard to obtain" is not right. please fix this...

While I wont agree or disagree, Empyrean/Relic WSs are not naturally acquired. Everyone can get them, but not everyone has them. There is no reason to not include unique and powerful spells. I for one would love some potent powerful magic that is hard to get (SMN in particular.)

[Economizer]

Not quite the area of effect raise spell I briefly recall them considering, but very cool none-the-less, stands out from the other raise spells.

Yeah, I was really hoping they'd do the raise thing they were considering with Raise II giving 4 minute weaken, and Raise III giving 3 minute weaken. Arise could be AoE or something useful like raising them at full HP/MP so undead don't attack them or giving them Deodorize/Sneak/Invisible. It is a bit disappointing and I'd prefer if SE fixes it but I would take the current change if we have to.

On Devotion/Martyr, I'm not sure this will change my current merits (5/5 Devotion) but it might. I suppose this will change White Mages from 5/5 Devotion to 4/5 Devotion 1/5 Martyr (I refuse to merit Protectra V for 5 more loldefense... people who ask for Protect V over Protectra IV piss me off as well). I also wonder if this stacks with the AF2+2 hat... in which case you could get twice the Devotion with full merits, but I don't think I'm getting the hat considering the cost of inventory slots.

[saevel]

Arise is ... interesting. Mostly seems to be a way to handle people who died within aoe range. The raise animation takes so long to display that often the NM can get off a second or third AoE before the person even has a chance to move.

[Camate]

I would like to respond to a few questions we have seen regarding Araise.

・Revives and bestows Reraise III upon target PC
If the weakened state caused by Reraise III isn’t as short as 3 minutes, it would be better to use Araise to revive players than for them to reraise, wouldn’t it?

Reraise simply serves as insurance in the case of an emergency, so we do not plan on adding the effects of Araise to it. Our idea is for players to use the effect of reraise when there are lots of KO’d players or if there isn’t a white mage at hand and to use Araise in all other situations, if possible.

It’d be great if HP is restored to the maximum possible HP value while weakened.

We will look into this as an effect of Araise.

At first, I thought this adjustment would further favor white mages. However, as I thought about it more, I realized that it is very likely that players would feel that white mages without Araise are useless. Based on the length of weakened state, Raise I, II and III are all rendered useless by the addition of Araise, and when fighting a strong NM, players will only want white mages with Araise. I feel like this, in turn, will add an incredible amount of responsibility for white mages, but how do the developers feel about this?

Please keep in mind that Araise will be extremely difficult to obtain. As such, it is highly unlikely that every white mage will learn Araise. Also, we plan on making the MP consumed higher and recast timers longer compared to Raise, although we are still in the development stage. With that in mind, although Araise does have the advantage of a shorter weakened state, Araise will never serve as an almighty spell that renders all other spells useless.

[Economizer]

On the full HP thing the issue is partially that the Raise animation locks players into place and inevitability you get caught by an AoE attack. Perhaps in addition to having maximum HP it could also make the player invulnerable to damage until they are able to move or even for a short time after this, especially if this is a hard to obtain MP expensive scroll.

Please keep in mind that Araise will be extremely difficult to obtain. As such, it is highly unlikely that every white mage will learn Araise. Also, we plan on making the MP consumed higher and recast timers longer compared to Raise, although we are still in the development stage. With that in mind, although Araise does have the advantage of a shorter weakened state, Araise will never serve as an almighty spell that renders all other spells useless.

I'm not exactly sure what to make of this. If the spell is hard to get then it has to be worth the effort. Personally I'm for the increased difference between someone who just leveled White Mage casually so they could get gear from shout groups and someone who is dedicated to the job. The person dedicated to their job should be preferred over someone's friend who leveled the job a week ago and got a Light Staff... if someone levels Warrior they have to cap skills and get decent gear - the same should be true of someone who plays White Mage.

Death should be rare for a group that is well prepared and playing well and having someone who dies for whatever reason be combat effective sooner is a major thing and should be an advantage someone with this spell has. For party wipes however the current rumored cost of 300 MP coupled with the same cast/recast times as other Raise spells should be more then enough to make Raise I/II/III still useful.

If there is still feeling that this spell should be nerfed somehow, please strongly consider instead buffing the lower tier Raises instead. If Raise II lowered the weakened timer by somewhere between 30~60 seconds and Raise III lowered the weakened timer by somewhere between 60~120 seconds (but less then Araise) then Araise would still be useful for various reasons while White Mages without it would still have some use. These weakened timer reductions could even be based on Healing Magic skill...

[Camiie]

Please keep in mind that Araise will be extremely difficult to obtain. As such, it is highly unlikely that every white mage will learn Araise.

It seems like that's what all new content is now. When do we start getting content again that the average player is expected to be able to do?

[Fredjan]

First of all:

If their strategy is build around dying odds are they suck too.

This, for the love of god, this.

Strategies shouldn't depend on deaths/'lower' weakness timers, anyway. That alone is doing it wrong. The point is to avoid it altogether -that's kinda the point of bringing WHM in the first place, to avoid deaths by having proper healing. However, deaths will happen no matter what, stuff happens sometimes that even the most skilled White Mages may not be able to deal with entirely.

Singling out a White Mage that doesn't have this spell is stupid in my opinion. I can understand things like Erase back in the day, and I understood lack of Raise III when people actually had to.... GASP .... work for experience points, nowadays, it's just an extra Raise spell as exp loss is meaningless in 2012. Will you want a WHM with Arise (I don't care if it's Araise, I'm calling it Arise because it makes more sense)? Of course. Refusing to bring one because they don't have it... I'd rather not go, anyway. I already view it as a "niche" spell. I'd be more upset if a White Mage didn't have status removal spells (I've seen some level 99 White Mages use a Cursna scroll..............), or even their top tier cures. That is worth not letting one into your group.

And as Camate mentioned, Arise is going to have a longer recast timer than the other Raises. For example, say you're recovering from a full wipe... the point of doing that is to recover as fast as possible, and that means using all of your raise spells as recast timers permit. If anyone asks for Arise only, they'll just delay the group, as relying on Arise alone to do that in a situation like that only wastes more time, whereas using all of your raise spells will recover people "faster" in the long run.

Please keep in mind that Araise will be extremely difficult to obtain. As such, it is highly unlikely that every white mage will learn Araise. Also, we plan on making the MP consumed higher and recast timers longer compared to Raise, although we are still in the development stage. With that in mind, although Araise does have the advantage of a shorter weakened state, Araise will never serve as an almighty spell that renders all other spells useless.

First of all, I like that it's going to be difficult, kinda like a status symbol, if you will. I can already read this and expect Meteor to get the same treatment on Black Mage, but alas, that's a different topic altogether.

Secondly, as other White Mages are curious of, why is it called "Araise"? "Arise" makes more sense and sounds better. I'd like to know the development team's reasoning beyond the naming.

[Economizer]

First of all, I like that it's going to be difficult, kinda like a status symbol, if you will.

Status symbols are worthless if they aren't useful. I really hope they don't nerf this to appease the "we want it to be easy to get because it is a scroll" crowd. I'm pretty sure they're dead set on making it harder to get compared to other scrolls and that's not bad, but it won't be good if the spell sucks as a result. Either make it worth the effort to get it or don't bother.

[Arcon]

Status symbols are worthless if they aren't useful.

Objective worth, sure. Subjective worth you can't judge. Some people are just in it for the rarity or completion, and to them it would be a valuable item, regardless of its effect.