Let's not bring an argument from 2003 into this. Party setup isn't a factor in this topic, really.
Let's not bring an argument from 2003 into this. Party setup isn't a factor in this topic, really.
Through the confinement of Valefor I found myself in the depths of Hades. It was there that I was thrown into Cerberus' Den. Only through Carbuncle's light could I find my way.
"Love thy wolf, more than thy neighbor." ~ W. Masters
"I'm sorry if you don't like me, but I'm not sorry for being who I am." ~ W. Masters
"There's nothing wrong with being wrong." ~ W. Masters
Quality of Life Ideas & More:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/43689-Quality-of-Life-Ideas-More
Okay, I'll go with your layout and keep it going.
Bard ~ I know they are a support job, I stated that, and was using it to prove a point.
Paladin ~ If Paladin "can't" heal, why do they have the spell?
Summoner ~ I understand that, it would be broken if they could heal with their avatar out. Still using them to prove my point.
Dancer ~ Yes, it is for other melee jobs that use MP. Again, I stated that to help prove a point. Dancers never use it, because there are more useful dances that people would rather have active. So even though they have it, it is really rather useless.
Red Mage ~ In my personal experience, incredibly over powered but that is neither here nor there and best kept to a different thread.
Blue Mage ~ Again, I understand it is a mage job and believe it or not, most mage jobs go through their MP rather quickly.
Black Mage ~ Not going to repeat myself again.
Corsair ~ Already stated that it is a buffer job, not worth including, again.
Scholar ~ Sublimation was insanely overpowered, but how many people play SCH? Not many, it is one of the least popular jobs, although I have no idea why.
And obviously you did not read the part where I said NATURAL refresh ability, which excludes equipment and support jobs. Every job listed can recover MP naturally, except for WHM. If you pay attention, you can see, it is not as "balanced" as you would like to believe.
"Love thy wolf, more than thy neighbor." ~ W. Masters
"I'm sorry if you don't like me, but I'm not sorry for being who I am." ~ W. Masters
"There's nothing wrong with being wrong." ~ W. Masters
Quality of Life Ideas & More:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/43689-Quality-of-Life-Ideas-More
No, it's not. If I was making a point about party setups, I would have posted that originally. Why do people keep trying to prove their point by ignoring what I said in the initial post?
"You can get refresh with armor."
"You want refresh? /RDM"
"Just go DD on your WHM and WS for more MP."
"You want refresh, get it from someone else in the party."
No, no, no, and no. Read the original post people, NATURAL REFRESH!
"Love thy wolf, more than thy neighbor." ~ W. Masters
"I'm sorry if you don't like me, but I'm not sorry for being who I am." ~ W. Masters
"There's nothing wrong with being wrong." ~ W. Masters
Quality of Life Ideas & More:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/43689-Quality-of-Life-Ideas-More
I did say /heal, not heal as in cast Cure.
WHM has Clear Mind V, they /heal as well as SCH, BLM, and SMN when using /heal which they are able to as they don't need to be in the front lines of battle.
This is why PLD and SMN do get auto-refresh, as they can't heal, and WHM is a curer so doesn't have access to spells like Aspir and Refresh as that would then make WHM severely over-powered.
Every job must have it's downfall, otherwise what is the point of multiple jobs, they'd just have one DD and one MAGE. Admittedly as FFXI stands now it does focus on having one DD and one MAGE... MNK & WHM.
Last edited by Daniel_Hatcher; 03-22-2011 at 08:33 PM.
Okay, again, you are not paying attention. Natural Refresh. WithOUT the use of support jobs or armor.
- We make MP last through conservation / management. ~ Based off your support job/armor. Wrong.
- We can achieve 50% cure potency with 35% stoneskin. ~ Based off your support job/armor. Wrong.
- We have WS's that produce large amounts of MP. ~ Based off your weapon and whether or not you hit, unlike Sublimation, Refresh, Convert, Light Arts, all of which are 100% and never miss. Wrong.
- We have access to most of the things you listed via support job: Convert, Refresh, Auto-Refresh, Sublimation, Aspir, etc. ~ Are you paying attention? NATURAL! Wrong.
- We can get up to 7mp/tick refresh from gear. ~ Based off your armor. Wrong.
- We can use HMP to rest 60+ per tick (or more?). ~ Based off your armor. Wrong.
Yeah, great job defeating me except for the part where you FAILED! Read the post. Natural. Refresh. WHM have none.
I have been playing this game since March 14, 2005. I have tanked on the job and done a damn good job (because my THF friend thought it would be funny to Trick Attack onto me). The one thing that has always remained is, why doesn't WHM have some kind of natural refresh? I also want to know why Mithra can eat raw fish and Galka can eat raw meat, but no other race in the game has any kind of race specific ability. I'm not expecting people to rally with me and demand WHM get refresh. I'm waiting for someone to provide some REAL evidence to state why WHM NEVER got refresh to begin with. There are plenty of things in the game that an be explained if you look for it. Why does RDM have Divine Magic when they have no Divine based spells? Because Dia used to be Divine based. Why does DRG have two 2 hour job abilities (listed in the data files)? Because "Call Wyvern" used to be considered their 2 hour ability and it is also why they never had to reprogram anything to prevent the ability from showing up when you /DRG. Here's another one for you, why does Rank 15 exist in the data files, but we can only get to Rank 10?
This is another one of those questions that is left unanswered by Square Enix and I want an answer. Unless someone can provide REAL evidence for why they never got it (like /DRG Call Wyvern), I am going to keep at it and demanding an answer. It may never come, or I may get a GM to reply shortly after posting this. I won't be happy until I can get a definite answer.
"Love thy wolf, more than thy neighbor." ~ W. Masters
"I'm sorry if you don't like me, but I'm not sorry for being who I am." ~ W. Masters
"There's nothing wrong with being wrong." ~ W. Masters
Quality of Life Ideas & More:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/43689-Quality-of-Life-Ideas-More
So, according to your logic, SMN is over-powered because,
Clear Mind V:
Summoner Level 70
Black Mage Level 75
Scholar Level 76
White Mage Level 80
Take a look. White Mage gets Clear Mind V last out of all the jobs, before level 76-80 they weren't even considered. Black Mage DOES have access to spells like Aspir and Aspir II, so again, that makes BLM over-powered, just like Summoner.
I do agree that MNK & WHM can run just about everything duo without anyone else. I know this for a fact because my buddy (MNK) and I (WHM) do just that.
"Love thy wolf, more than thy neighbor." ~ W. Masters
"I'm sorry if you don't like me, but I'm not sorry for being who I am." ~ W. Masters
"There's nothing wrong with being wrong." ~ W. Masters
Quality of Life Ideas & More:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/43689-Quality-of-Life-Ideas-More
Ok fine, let's say SE give you a 2/tick auto-refresh on WHM. Hell, let's make it 3/tick.
If you were running out of MP before then 3/tick auto-refresh (60MP a minute) is not going to save you. You'll still run out of MP. Some of the best WHMs have posted already saying it's not needed but for some reason you continue posting.
You're not going to get your 'definite answer'.
No, they are not.
Lord almighty. Summoner gets auto-refresh because they can't rest/heal like WHM can.
Whether they got Clear Mind V before the cap or not is irrelevant, as they have it now, and before that they'd have had IV so still would heal a lot of MP, and they'd have the time to rest/heal.
Lowman you can rest/heal, and in a party situation you'd have a RDM, BRD or COR giving you Refresh so there is no need whatsoever to NOT include that and equipment, unless you suddenly want to WHM naked.
WHM does not need auto-refresh or a method to give it to themselves when whether you like it or not, they have subjobs to do it. You're never going to be "whm/no subjob" EVER. So taking a subjob out of the equation is like taking job abilities, or traits out, only difference is outside of some occasions NOTHING can remove subjobs, like amnesia can remove abilities.
You genuinely need to stop the Natural crap, who the hell cares, you're going to have a subjob, and you're going to have equipment. This is how the game works, RDM gets Refresh I and II, and have to pay/hunt to learn it, like you pay to use equipment. By that logic RDM doesn't get Refresh "naturally." So they therefore should as well.
Last edited by Daniel_Hatcher; 03-22-2011 at 10:25 PM.
Ok Wolfe,
WHM has no natural refresh ability according to your definition...though our definitions of what "natural" is differs a bit....
But the question has now become, "Do you feel they need it?" or has this been a long exercise of overstating the obvious?
90 WHM, RDM
85 WAR
|
© SQUARE ENIX FINAL FANTASY, SQUARE ENIX, and the SQUARE ENIX logo are registered trademarks of Square Enix Holdings Co., Ltd. Vana'diel , Tetra Master, PLAYONLINE, the PLAYONLINE logo, Rise of the Zilart, Chains of Promathia, Treasures of Aht Urhgan, and Wings of the Goddess are registered trademarks of Square Enix Co., Ltd. The rating icon is a registered trademark of the Entertainment Software Association. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. Online play requires internet connection. |