WHM Have NO Natural Refresh Capability, WHY?

[Simian]

Wolfe - we can agree to disagree on the fact that WHM needs natural refresh, but if you are talking about "natural" as in a Job Trait, then only SMN, PLD and BLU have that. RDM gets theirs from spells and gear just like WHM's. SMN did not even get Auto Refresh 2 until level 90 and that is only 2mp/tic. SCH gets their's from a Job Ability that has a timer unlike Job Traits which are always active. RDM is the same with Convert. So in essence, it is not a natural ability. If MP Conserve was adjusted to proc more often with greater reliability, I think you might find that to be better. Or just allow WHM's to perform self Devotion, which for me is 325+mp which is slightly less than a third of my normal overall MP pool.

[Wolfe]

Wolfe - we can agree to disagree on the fact that WHM needs natural refresh, but if you are talking about "natural" as in a Job Trait, then only SMN, PLD and BLU have that. RDM gets theirs from spells and gear just like WHM's. SMN did not even get Auto Refresh 2 until level 90 and that is only 2mp/tic. SCH gets their's from a Job Ability that has a timer unlike Job Traits which are always active. RDM is the same with Convert. So in essence, it is not a natural ability. If MP Conserve was adjusted to proc more often with greater reliability, I think you might find that to be better. Or just allow WHM's to perform self Devotion, which for me is 325+mp which is slightly less than a third of my normal overall MP pool.

"Natural" means the job by itself with no subjob or other item/equipment. Not just job trait, a spell or job ability would work as well.

[Lancil]

I don't see why whms need an auto-refresh. Higher tier cures make the mp gained from the trait almost unnoticeable. If anything, whms should get conserve mp, but that would just be redundant due to the ability to sub sch. In the long run while spamming cures you'll notice that you have a larger mp pool with conserve mp than without it; and if you are idle waiting for those few tics of mp why not rest. It's not like kneeling down will kill you. In roughly one second you can be up curing your tank without any setbacks.

[Wolfe]

I don't see why whms need an auto-refresh. Higher tier cures make the mp gained from the trait almost unnoticeable. If anything, whms should get conserve mp, but that would just be redundant due to the ability to sub sch. In the long run while spamming cures you'll notice that you have a larger mp pool with conserve mp than without it; and if you are idle waiting for those few tics of mp why not rest. It's not like kneeling down will kill you. In roughly one second you can be up curing your tank without any setbacks.

Yeah, kneeling down may not kill you, but the delay it takes to drop to a knee, AS your tank gets hit, now you have to try desperately to stand up and get a cure off before they die. It may not kill you, it sure as hell can kill your tank in a matter of seconds. I would call that a setback.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Yeah, kneeling down may not kill you, but the delay it takes to drop to a knee, AS your tank gets hit, now you have to try desperately to stand up and get a cure off before they die. It may not kill you, it sure as hell can kill your tank in a matter of seconds. I would call that a setback.

This has been a non-issue for around 9 years. It's all part of the glorious micro management that is WHM.

[Momohko]

* Bard: Mages Ballad (Does not even use MP naturally and they have a form of Refresh)
* Bard: Mages Ballad II (I understand, support job, fine. But they still have Refresh)
* Bard: Mages Ballad III (Really?)

The reason we have ballad is because brds are SUPPORT jobs we have the ballad for YOU whms -.- if whms would stop running away from me when i ballad them or if they would stop being so close to the damn melee yea their refresh rate wouldn't be an issue(not saying you do this but you rly wouldn't believe the ammount of mages who run from ballad or the melee who feel they need ballad with their 10 mp pool -.-). Aside from being brd for over 6 years now I am also whm and I don't run into much mp problems, while yes it would be nice to have some sort of refresh native to whm I don't feel it is a NEED. To me it would mean I would not have to be as careful when playing whm lol. I have seen a galka whm with decent gear nothing amazing have no problem with healing while I have been with plenty of hume taru or mithra whm who have the hardest time keeping people healed and keeping mp up so another thing to consider is player skill~

[Wolfe]

The reason we have ballad is because brds are SUPPORT jobs we have the ballad for YOU whms -.- if whms would stop running away from me when i ballad them or if they would stop being so close to the damn melee yea their refresh rate wouldn't be an issue(not saying you do this but you rly wouldn't believe the ammount of mages who run from ballad or the melee who feel they need ballad with their 10 mp pool -.-). Aside from being brd for over 6 years now I am also whm and I don't run into much mp problems, while yes it would be nice to have some sort of refresh native to whm I don't feel it is a NEED. To me it would mean I would not have to be as careful when playing whm lol. I have seen a galka whm with decent gear nothing amazing have no problem with healing while I have been with plenty of hume taru or mithra whm who have the hardest time keeping people healed and keeping mp up so another thing to consider is player skill~

Yes, I understand BRD is a support job, I stated that too. I was also using it to prove a point. DNC has a refresh dance as well. So does COR.

And while the Galka did not have a problem with MP, did you know that a Galka also has stronger cures than any other race? That does play a big factor.

I know player skill is something to consider, I have seen 3 WHM in an alliance run out of MP and get a full wipe. I came in (LS event that I arrived late to), told the 3 WHM to go job change and I was able to keep everyone alive without any issues what-so-ever. I am not trying to brag, but the 3 WHM's were pretty awful. Player skill can make or break a job.

[araamilofasura]

And while the Galka did not have a problem with MP, did you know that a Galka also has stronger cures than any other race? That does play a big factor.

.

Just going to state that Elvaans, not Galka, have the highest cures.

[jimmie]

I think I understand what Wolfe is saying and I agree with him. WHM hasn't recieved any great attributes in comparison to many of the other jobs, I don't think he's arguing the subjob enhancements. What I see is that Spells and Attributes that could normally fall under a healer's category were effectively disbursed to a number of new jobs created by the updates, rendering WHM relatively non-essential in the game. I can't believe that any WHM wouldn't want Auto-Refresh, or Hastega for that matter. Other jobs recieved them, why not the basic healer? ...From what I read, that's all that Wolfe asked, and all he got back was how wonderful you all are.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

WHM needs Hatega, not auto-refresh. Only two jobs got that, the ones that actually need it.