WHM Have NO Natural Refresh Capability, WHY?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Maybe not complainers, but I sure as hell am a whiner. I want refresh. I love my refresh atmas but there is a whole world outside of Abyssea and my atmas don't seem to work there. Every mage job in the game has some way to recover MP, except for WHM. Complainers or not, I want to know why SE has yet to give us some kind of refresh.

Then sub SCH.

[Wolfe]

Then sub SCH.

Do you completely miss the point of "Natural Refresh?" Did you even read what I wrote? I am not talking about support jobs. If that was the only issue, there would be no point in posting this thread. I already /SCH and that defines the WHM job. It does not enhance it the way it should, it defines it. Allowing WHM to cast group Stoneskin, enhances the job. Casting a spell for 50% of the MP or casting time, that enhances the job. Sublimation even helps to enhance the job. BUT, without a natural refresh, Sublimation from SCH and Refresh from RDM no longer enhance the job, they define it.

The fact that your answer to my post is "then sub SCH" is the best you can do, proves my point entirely. /SCH does not enhance the job anymore, it defines it. Without /SCH, the job would be useless because MP would be gone in seconds.

[Orenwald]

First of all, Cura II is a great spell when you know how to use it. Afflatus Misery is for use as a MELEE white mage (which is very fun ). Cura II is the single most MP efficient way to recover from an AoE move restoring up to 250 MP per person for 45 mp.

Second, you list Clear Mind V as a BLM thing that WHM does have, but WHM gets it at 80, which makes your list very misleading.

Third, 9 times out of 10 RDMs are too lazy to refresh WHMs (in my experience) so WHM/rdm works better for me than /SCH because I can refresh myself. plus when I convert I never cure myself, by the time I need to convert again I've Auto-Regen II'd all my MP back (gogo elvaan MP pool!)

[Simian]

First...I am a WHM that has been playing it as long as you....but I am not an in the box WHM either....not many WHM's that I know have capped merits on Divine Magic....

Secondly...I am Galka and I do not bathe in the waters off Khazam and unless you're a Taru...you do not have my MP pool or my HP pool....

With that said....Outside of Abyssea...when in healer mode....it is WHM/RDM....I can convert and cure someone before I even bother with myself....Within Abyssea....it is /BLM unless the fight is something that will tax my MP pool more than usual....and it is rare in either instance that I take a knee to recover MP....so I think my refresh rate is pretty good....

I'd rather see upgrades to light based damage spells rather than job traits.

[Wolfe]

First...I am a WHM that has been playing it as long as you....but I am not an in the box WHM either....not many WHM's that I know have capped merits on Divine Magic....

Secondly...I am Galka and I do not bathe in the waters off Khazam and unless you're a Taru...you do not have my MP pool or my HP pool....

With that said....Outside of Abyssea...when in healer mode....it is WHM/RDM....I can convert and cure someone before I even bother with myself....Within Abyssea....it is /BLM unless the fight is something that will tax my MP pool more than usual....and it is rare in either instance that I take a knee to recover MP....so I think my refresh rate is pretty good....

I'd rather see upgrades to light based damage spells rather than job traits.

I have just about capped all my skills on WHM, I have 50% cure potency gear, and /SCH is the best for immediate MP recovery without taking a chance that I might die from a hate reset move. I have seen a lot of WHM die from Convert because the mob used a hate reset move, another mob saw low HP or just aggroed in general because they WHM has to move far enough away from the mob being fought so as not to die to a stray AoE.

And bathing in the waters of Kazham is a joke that GM's use. Ask them about it some time. It is the same as if you ask them to marry you, they will tell you they are married to SE. Every time.

In Abyssea, I go WHM90/SCH45 and I take 3 atmas, Ambition, Harmony, and Minikin Monstrosity. I never run out of MP and if I do, Sublimation is well enough to keep me going until the mob dies.

The point I am making is, WHM have no natural refresh. I don't care about how you can get around it with subjobs. A subjob is designed to ENHANCE the main job. It should not be defining it. The best way to see if a job is balanced is to remove your subjob. There is a glitch in the game that allows you to do it, it has been addressed and brought forward to SE numerous times but since it is "not a 'useful' glitch," they have not removed it and it is not illegal to use it. Remove your subjob and see how great you do on WHM, by itself. Without any kind of refresh, WHM drain their MP pool fast and the party will wipe.

[Alkimi]

WHM should be concentrating on conserving MP as much as possible because there currently is no Natural Refresh. situation.

True, we don't have natural refresh. But I really don't see how it is a problem if you play WHM well. You can already get up to 7/tick in gear refresh (up to 9/tick if using Sublimation aswell) and Orison Pantaloons +2 cuts the cost of Cure V down to about 69 MP or thereabouts.

Cure VI is really an abyssea-only spell, useful for heavy curing a DD tank when the recast timer on Cure V isn't quick enough, and in that place refresh isn't a problem anyway.

Whm really does need some decent boosts...almost everything a whm is needed for can be done by other jobs using /whm now, which is leaving us poor whm behind

Complete nonsense really, sorry. The fact that only WHM can use cures higher than IV means they're near-essential for most things. Try curing a DD fighting Rani/Raja/Shinryu using only Cure IV from a subjob, it's not gonna work unless there's 3 of you spamming it.

[Wolfe]

Complete nonsense really, sorry. The fact that only WHM can use cures higher than IV means they're near-essential for most things. Try curing a DD fighting Rani/Raja/Shinryu using only Cure IV from a subjob, it's not gonna work unless there's 3 of you spamming it.

Actually, I have seen a BRD90/RDM45 play full healer for an entire alliance, successfully. He was trying to tell me how useless WHM are. He did a good job, but he was strictly geared for healing and not geared like a BRD should be. But, the point is, it can be done.

[Vraelia]

I would like to say, I am a 90 RDM and WHM....and for you to state that about RDMs. Is completely disrespectful in my eyes. RDMs are masters of Refreshing as well as Enfeebling. So, please, back off of RDMs. lols

Anyways, I do agree that WHMs should get a Auto-Refresh JT. It would be useful. lol

[Hiroshiko]

I agree that throughout the years the main issue with WHM was its lack of MP conservation/restoration tools compared to the other mages. I never understood why WHM had the lowest Clear Mind trait of all the mages but had no form of MP restoration. Our potency makes up for a bit of that (“why cast 2 Cure IVs when you can cast Cure V once?” kind of deal), but overall we really had nothing naturally. However, with the introduction of /SCH, the ability to sub RDM (I still prefer /SCH but to each his/her own), and, in Abyssea, Refresh atma, some of our MP issues are becoming less severe. Would I like to see some form of natural MP conservation/restoration tool? Sure, but I don't think it would need to be anything drastic. Maybe a decent Conserve MP trait tacked on at a lower level, or a trait similar to the Orison Pantaloons +1/2 that stacked? Even something like a light-based Aspir that actually works on more than a handful of mobs would be nice. Drains a monster’s HP and converts it to our MP? I don't know. I'll leave that to someone creative.

Also, Cure II isn't as terrible as its predecessor. While it's still not great and I still don't use it as much as Curaga, it does come in handy for some older content mobs (Salvage gears mainly and maybe Cactuar) where I can sit in range of a moderate AoE and actually heal more than I was damaged for (unlike Cura which usually couldn't keep up). However, it is still a slap in the face for larger fights. Cure VI on the other hand is a nightmare. Like the OP said, the ratio of Cure/MP is terrible and is even worse outside of Abyssea when people aren't taking ridiculous amounts of damage. It’s a nice alternative if Cure V is down and someone really needs it.

Overall though, WHM is doing a lot better than it was in the older days. Afflatus Solace/Misery, Esuna, Sacrifice, etc. were nice starts and we have gotten other decent additions (especially inside Abyssea). However, a few tweaks here and there would still be appreciated.

[annewandering]

I agree that throughout the years the main issue with WHM was its lack of MP conservation/restoration tools compared to the other mages. I never understood why WHM had the lowest Clear Mind trait of all the mages but had no form of MP restoration. Our potency makes up for a bit of that (“why cast 2 Cure IVs when you can cast Cure V once?” kind of deal), but overall we really had nothing naturally. However, with the introduction of /SCH, the ability to sub RDM (I still prefer /SCH but to each his/her own), and, in Abyssea, Refresh atma, some of our MP issues are becoming less severe. Would I like to see some form of natural MP conservation/restoration tool? Sure, but I don't think it would need to be anything drastic. Maybe a decent Conserve MP trait tacked on at a lower level, or a trait similar to the Orison Pantaloons +1/2 that stacked? Even something like a light-based Aspir that actually works on more than a handful of mobs would be nice. Drains a monster’s HP and converts it to our MP? I don't know. I'll leave that to someone creative.

Also, Cure II isn't as terrible as its predecessor. While it's still not great and I still don't use it as much as Curaga, it does come in handy for some older content mobs (Salvage gears mainly and maybe Cactuar) where I can sit in range of a moderate AoE and actually heal more than I was damaged for (unlike Cura which usually couldn't keep up). However, it is still a slap in the face for larger fights. Cure VI on the other hand is a nightmare. Like the OP said, the ratio of Cure/MP is terrible and is even worse outside of Abyssea when people aren't taking ridiculous amounts of damage. It’s a nice alternative if Cure V is down and someone really needs it.

Overall though, WHM is doing a lot better than it was in the older days. Afflatus Solace/Misery, Esuna, Sacrifice, etc. were nice starts and we have gotten other decent additions (especially inside Abyssea). However, a few tweaks here and there would still be appreciated.

Recently in abyssea I have found that cura 2 can be quite useful. I can cure up party from an aoe quickly, getting them out of immediate danger if not all the way to full heal and get back to the tanks. Sure I could use a curaga but cura 2 just seems to do a good fast job.