Thie... Treasure Hunter ideas

[AyinDygra]

Steal and Mug have been put on a very long recast timers making Thief into more of an assassin during gameplay. I say we need more stealing or shall I say, "Treasure Hunting" by Thieves during battle. To avoid impacting the economy with all those new items being stolen, the stolen items don't have to be real items or have gil value.

Job Ability: Snatch
Level 10
Recast: 1min (or less)
This version of steal allows thieves to acquire "temporary items" from monsters, like potions or grenades.
* These items will disappear once you change zones.
* Temporary items can be stolen numerous times during the same battle, if it goes long enough. Only one of each temporary item can be held at any one time.
* All Thieves can steal these temporary items from the same monster. (no limit aside from the recast timer, and the chance to get the item each time)
* Certain actions performed against a monster might change the temporary items available from them.
* Not all items need to be useful to Thieves. Since the ability is usable as a subjob, a whole variety of items could be obtained.

FF Tactics and FFX/X-2 both introduced several things that thieves can steal that are not items.

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Job Ability:Borrowed Time
In the past, this has added Stop to the target. In FFXI, this could add slow to the enemy, and haste to the thief. (small amounts, roughly 5% max to each) With multiple thieves, there should be a cap on how much slow can be added to the enemy, but each thief should benefit from the haste even if it doesn't add the slow in those cases.

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Job Ability:Stolen Heart
In the past, this has been a version of charm. It has been suggested by others, that this would be a form of hate manipulation in FFXI, causing the enemy to love instead of hate the Thief. This could simply be a way to stop a battle and get away. The enemy may give the Thief a gift.

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Job Ability:Pilfer HP
Job Ability:Pilfer MP
These would be physical ways to steal HP and MP, instead of magical. They wouldn't be nearly as strong as the spells Drain and Aspir, but could prove useful in certain situations, especially if they were usable as /Thf also (some jobs have more use for MP than others)

---

In past FF games, Thieves protected the entire party from "back attacks" with this trait:

Job Ability: Caution
Level 30
Reduces the chance of being hit by critical hits. (greatly lower enemy critical hit rate)
* Effects the entire party, like "circle" abilities.
* Perhaps add: Increases defensive skill activation rate. (Shield, Guard, Parry, Evade)

---

Job Ability: Entice (or Lure)
Level 10
Effect Duration: 5sec Recast: 3min
Ranged job ability, like Provoke.
This ability claims the enemy like provoke, without as much hate generation. For the duration of this effect, the enemy will not link other enemies and will not attack or cast on the person it now chases.
* The effect wears off once any other aggressive action has been performed against it.
* Only works on monsters without hate of any sort.
* Anything "Impossible to Gauge" is immune to the effect.

Many times people have to wait for monsters to wander far enough away from each other before pulling to avoid links. This time spent waiting can easily break XP chains. Any monsters aggressive to sound are especially annoying. The purpose of this ability is to allow Thieves (or people who sub thief) to pull monsters that would ordinarily link.

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Job Ability: Distract
Level 40
Duration: 30sec
Recast: 2min
Removes position restrictions on all actions taken against the distracted target. (Sneak attack, Overwhelm, Closed Position, etc)
* Allows solo thieves to use sneak attack.
* May disable or lower the enemy's defensive abilities for a short duration (Shield, Guard, Parry, Evade, Counterattack).
* Increases success rate of stealing abilities. (Steal, Mug, etc)

---

Adjustment: When Thieves get Treasure Hunter II, allow Mug to inflict an attack while stealing. (does not apply to Thief used as a subjob)

~*~

Just some ideas I had to make thieves more "Treasure Hunter"-y and less Assassin-ish.

[Strife]

Some of these are already being discussed in other forums. TH is being discussed in the forum above this one which has also branched off into discussing several THF abilities especially steal & mug.

Job Ability: Snatch
Level 10
Recast: 1min (or less)
This version of steal allows thieves to acquire "temporary items" from monsters, like potions or grenades.

I just posted a similar suggestion in the forum above this lol. Though I think being able to steal an unlimited amount of temp items & every minuet might unbalance things, especially if they're powerful items.

Job Ability:Borrowed Time
In the past, this has added Stop to the target. In FFXI, this could add slow to the enemy, and haste to the thief.

Despoil already has a chance -crappy though it is-to add slow depending on mob. A haste ability would be nice though.

Job Ability:Stolen Heart
....This could simply be a way to stop a battle and get away. The enemy may give the Thief a gift.

THF already has flee & hide to escape battles though admittedly these aren't always 100% effective. I'd like to see a beastman after trying to rape my ass stop & give me a brightly wrapped present just for lolz or a mandy give me a flower just for cutez. Though would you want some of the things monsters would try & give you? I mean my cat brings me 'presents' all the time I'd rather not receive.

Job Ability:Pilfer HP

I actually posted a similar idea to this as part of my post on the dual wield forum (sounds like a strange place to post it I know but the discussion there has also branched off into various THF related issues). I think having a way for THF to recover some HP besides bolts which aren't as effective as they used to be would be great.

Job Ability: Entice (or Lure)...
...The purpose of this ability is to allow Thieves (or people who sub thief) to pull monsters that would ordinarily link.

Would be handy but I think if SE wanted people to be able to pull easily without linking they wouldn't have made mobs link to begin with

Job Ability: Distract
Level 40
Duration: 30sec
Recast: 2min
Removes position restrictions on all actions taken against the distracted target. (Sneak attack, Overwhelm, Closed Position, etc)

This I really like, being able to use SA solo other than as an initial attack or with hide would be awesome. Would also be great for avoiding SA misses when someone turns the mob right before you WS.. because someone always does..

I would ATLEAST like to see SE alter the range for TA, do you have any idea how hard it can be to TA a moving taru especially if they're surrounded by other players or mobs SE? Well do you?!

[Arcon]

Would be handy but I think if SE wanted people to be able to pull easily without linking they wouldn't have made mobs link to begin with

Well, you can already do something similar with SMNs, the famous "carby pull". I think this is a good idea, several jobs have the ability to bend normal game-dynamics, I don't see anything fundamentally wrong with that. However, might be hard to implement.

This I really like, being able to use SA solo other than as an initial attack or with hide would be awesome. Would also be great for avoiding SA misses when someone turns the mob right before you WS.. because someone always does..

Also sounds great, but again, might be hard to implement.

I would ATLEAST like to see SE alter the range for TA, do you have any idea how hard it can be to TA a moving taru especially if they're surrounded by other players or mobs SE? Well do you?!

I agree, SA/TA should both have melee WS range, would alleviate that problem.

[Ezikiel]

Steal and Mug have been put on a very long recast timers making Thief into more of an assassin during gameplay. I say we need more stealing or shall I say, "Treasure Hunting" by Thieves during battle. To avoid impacting the economy with all those new items being stolen, the stolen items don't have to be real items or have gil value.

Job Ability: Snatch
Level 10
Recast: 1min (or less)
This version of steal allows thieves to acquire "temporary items" from monsters, like potions or grenades.
* These items will disappear once you change zones.
* Temporary items can be stolen numerous times during the same battle, if it goes long enough. Only one of each temporary item can be held at any one time.
* All Thieves can steal these temporary items from the same monster. (no limit aside from the recast timer, and the chance to get the item each time)
* Certain actions performed against a monster might change the temporary items available from them.
* Not all items need to be useful to Thieves. Since the ability is usable as a subjob, a whole variety of items could be obtained.

FF Tactics and FFX/X-2 both introduced several things that thieves can steal that are not items.

---

Job Ability:Borrowed Time
In the past, this has added Stop to the target. In FFXI, this could add slow to the enemy, and haste to the thief. (small amounts, roughly 5% max to each) With multiple thieves, there should be a cap on how much slow can be added to the enemy, but each thief should benefit from the haste even if it doesn't add the slow in those cases.

---

Job Ability:Stolen Heart
In the past, this has been a version of charm. It has been suggested by others, that this would be a form of hate manipulation in FFXI, causing the enemy to love instead of hate the Thief. This could simply be a way to stop a battle and get away. The enemy may give the Thief a gift.

---

Job Ability:Pilfer HP
Job Ability:Pilfer MP
These would be physical ways to steal HP and MP, instead of magical. They wouldn't be nearly as strong as the spells Drain and Aspir, but could prove useful in certain situations, especially if they were usable as /Thf also (some jobs have more use for MP than others)

---

In past FF games, Thieves protected the entire party from "back attacks" with this trait:

Job Ability: Caution
Level 30
Reduces the chance of being hit by critical hits. (greatly lower enemy critical hit rate)
* Effects the entire party, like "circle" abilities.
* Perhaps add: Increases defensive skill activation rate. (Shield, Guard, Parry, Evade)

---

Job Ability: Entice (or Lure)
Level 10
Effect Duration: 5sec Recast: 3min
Ranged job ability, like Provoke.
This ability claims the enemy like provoke, without as much hate generation. For the duration of this effect, the enemy will not link other enemies and will not attack or cast on the person it now chases.
* The effect wears off once any other aggressive action has been performed against it.
* Only works on monsters without hate of any sort.
* Anything "Impossible to Gauge" is immune to the effect.

Many times people have to wait for monsters to wander far enough away from each other before pulling to avoid links. This time spent waiting can easily break XP chains. Any monsters aggressive to sound are especially annoying. The purpose of this ability is to allow Thieves (or people who sub thief) to pull monsters that would ordinarily link.

---

Job Ability: Distract
Level 40
Duration: 30sec
Recast: 2min
Removes position restrictions on all actions taken against the distracted target. (Sneak attack, Overwhelm, Closed Position, etc)
* Allows solo thieves to use sneak attack.
* May disable or lower the enemy's defensive abilities for a short duration (Shield, Guard, Parry, Evade, Counterattack).
* Increases success rate of stealing abilities. (Steal, Mug, etc)

---

Adjustment: When Thieves get Treasure Hunter II, allow Mug to inflict an attack while stealing. (does not apply to Thief used as a subjob)

~*~

Just some ideas I had to make thieves more "Treasure Hunter"-y and less Assassin-ish.

i think entice is a great idea i know smns can do it but i think THF would be great going back as puller

[Pesh]

i think entice is a great idea i know smns can do it but i think THF would be great going back as puller

No. No. No. No. No!

When I'm in an Abyssea party (rare now because I have nothing left to merit), I will solo my own mob in about the same time it takes 6 idiots to whack away at another one. Sending me out to pull would considerably slow down kill speeds and exp rates.

In fact, I'd ask every party invite if I'd have to pull. If they said yes, I'd tell them to kick rocks and have a nice life.

Don't degrade the fact that THF has been elevated to one of the highest damage dealers after being crapped on for so long. We should not be pulling because we're already tanking. It's ignorant comments like this that make me hate other Thieves.

[Ezikiel]

No. No. No. No. No!

When I'm in an Abyssea party (rare now because I have nothing left to merit), I will solo my own mob in about the same time it takes 6 idiots to whack away at another one. Sending me out to pull would considerably slow down kill speeds and exp rates.

In fact, I'd ask every party invite if I'd have to pull. If they said yes, I'd tell them to kick rocks and have a nice life.

Don't degrade the fact that THF has been elevated to one of the highest damage dealers after being crapped on for so long. We should not be pulling because we're already tanking. It's ignorant comments like this that make me hate other Thieves.

LOL you have got to be kidding me how about you just say no if u don't want to pull. Don't restrict other people because u dont wanna fill a job roll. Some thieves like to pull, hell some thieves specialize in Dynamis pulling for currency

[AyinDygra]

Entice would not be very useful to today's parties in Abyssea, where multiple enemies are pulled all the time. People would rather have a bunch of enemies slept and ready to be killed, so pulling one at a time is inefficient in the area you seem to be expressing concern about.

Notice the level for obtaining Entice: 10 ... this is mainly for party use, outside of Abyssea, pulling in places like Crawler's nest or anywhere else linking is an issue. It's true there are not many parties at low levels anymore, but there are still other uses for it.

Entice would also be useful when you want to solo enemies that link (anywhere in the game.)

[Ezikiel]

Entice would not be very useful to today's parties in Abyssea, where multiple enemies are pulled all the time. People would rather have a bunch of enemies slept and ready to be killed, so pulling one at a time is inefficient in the area you seem to be expressing concern about.

Notice the level for obtaining Entice: 10 ... this is mainly for party use, outside of Abyssea, pulling in places like Crawler's nest or anywhere else linking is an issue. It's true there are not many parties at low levels anymore, but there are still other uses for it.

Entice would also be useful when you want to solo enemies that link (anywhere in the game.)

i Dual box in abyssea at times and a hate free pull would be nice its not only geared towards abyssea. i love abyssea too but there are other things on this game

[Pesh]

LOL you have got to be kidding me how about you just say no if u don't want to pull. Don't restrict other people because u dont wanna fill a job roll. Some thieves like to pull, hell some thieves specialize in Dynamis pulling for currency

Yes, I do say no. Dynamis pulling is one thing.

Pulling for an exp party when a lesser DD or support job can do it is something else.

Back when our damage wasn't great, sure I could justify pulling, but in exp parties I am top of the parse and I tank about 3/4 of the time, hence my refusal to pull.

To prove a point, I've pulled hate and then ran off to pull the next mob while letting whatever we were fighting chase me. Party leaders learn pretty quick the value of a heavy DD THF; if they don't, well their alliances aren't worth staying in.

Filling a job roll, what are you a pink gear wearing THF? Get full AF3+2 and some of the best daggers you can get and you'll quickly understand why I don't pull.

[Arcon]

Yes, I do say no. Dynamis pulling is one thing.

Pulling for an exp party when a lesser DD or support job can do it is something else.

Back when our damage wasn't great, sure I could justify pulling, but in exp parties I am top of the parse and I tank about 3/4 of the time, hence my refusal to pull.

To prove a point, I've pulled hate and then ran off to pull the next mob while letting whatever we were fighting chase me. Party leaders learn pretty quick the value of a heavy DD THF; if they don't, well their alliances aren't worth staying in.

Filling a job roll, what are you a pink gear wearing THF? Get full AF3+2 and some of the best daggers you can get and you'll quickly understand why I don't pull.

Why are you even in an alliance? You can solo 80k/hr and spam amber lights for TE/KI farm as THF.

Pulling isn't for EXP only, nor is EXP a major part of the game to get so upset about. Regardless, THF is still one of the best pullers, Flee and train 10 mob, takes less than 20 seconds, I do it frequently even when I'm DDing and it still doesn't gimp my damage much, probably enhances overall alliance damage output, if you have slow pullers.

Also, I'm annoyed when I do highest damage as THF in alliance, because despite its recent boost in damage, it's still far from the best DD when other people play their jobs right. If you keep saying that, then you either don't play your other jobs to their full potential or don't know anyone else who does. WAR, DRG, MNK, NIN, PUP, even DNC can all outdo THF, maybe even a great SAM. People like to boast about critical WS for ~3k damage, when SAM can spam non-critical YGKs for over 2k.

Some THFs need to realize that they're neither the best DD nor the best tank, nor the best combination of both. Sometimes THFs do need to fill other job roles, regardless of their gear and skills. And Entice would be great for pulling in certain situations, pulling in Dynamis/Limbus/Einherjar or pulling NMs in Abyssea that would normally link with other mobs in that area, there's plenty of uses for it.

And regardless of all that, even if Abyssea EXP was the only thing you could possibly pull for, how would this ability make it any worse? You think leaders will make you pull because of it? Why would they want you to pull link-free, when you should normally get a bunch of mobs to sleep/hold and then kill?

Also, if you wanna do best damage, you do not want full AF3+2.