Thie... Treasure Hunter ideas

[LeaderofAtlantis]

As we approach the final levels, I would love to see the addition of perhaps a Pick Pocket Job Trait that increases steal and despoil rates naturally. We should be improving our stealing skills the higher we go in levels right?

[Pesh]

It's 16% haste in full AF3+2. I assume you counted Twilight Belt, although there's really no reason to use it on THF. AF3+2 head, body and legs, Homam Manopolas, Ballerines, Tiercel Necklace, Nusku's Sash. Any dagger combination between Auric, Triplus, Twilight and Rapidus works about equally well (personally I use Auric/Rapidus, may change Rapidus for Triplus when I get it).

Auric/Rapidus? Are you nuts? It isn't always about fast attacks. You need to justify the amount of damage you do per swing in relation to the TP you feed to the mob.

Secondly, Homam Manopolas? AF3+2 add 8 STR, 8 DEX, 12 Accuracy, 16 Attack... THF has always been cursed with a low attack rating, so its nice to have a piece of gear that gives us a pretty substantial boost.

The gear set-up you've listed sounds like you're focusing more on the fast attacks and neglecting the amount of damage you're dealing per attack.

Secondly, stacking DW gear lowers your TP gain per swing, so yes while you attack faster, you're still requiring more swings to get to 100.

Personally, I'd rather swing a tiny bit slower, hit harder and do massive WS damage compared to what sounds like a weaker set-up. Besides, the 31% TA and 20% DA rate makes up for the loss of 2.5% haste.

[Arcon]

Auric/Rapidus? Are you nuts? It isn't always about fast attacks. You need to justify the amount of damage you do per swing in relation to the TP you feed to the mob.

Auric/Rapidus is the fastest TP gain combination for THF (bar multihit weapons). With the set I posted above, it takes less than 15 seconds to get to 100% TP (without any supporters), which is 15% faster than Twilight/Triplus combination. Also you do most hits in that time (23 hits). And overall, you feed the mob least TP (because of the Subtle Blow on Auric for the most part), a total of 98.8% TP (in the time it takes me to get to 100% TP). Your proposed set deals 129.8% TP to the mob in the time it takes you to get to 100% TP, which is over 30% worse than mine.

Secondly, Homam Manopolas? AF3+2 add 8 STR, 8 DEX, 12 Accuracy, 16 Attack... THF has always been cursed with a low attack rating, so its nice to have a piece of gear that gives us a pretty substantial boost.

The gear set-up you've listed sounds like you're focusing more on the fast attacks and neglecting the amount of damage you're dealing per attack.

Yes, that's exactly what I do. Attack bonus is not nearly as important for THF as for other jobs, and even other jobs would profit from more haste over attack. People spend millions and devote months of farming and playing to get 1% or 2% Haste for a reason, because if you're not at cap, it is easily the best status attribute to push.

Secondly, stacking DW gear lowers your TP gain per swing, so yes while you attack faster, you're still requiring more swings to get to 100.

Yes, but with the lower delay it actually takes less time to get to 100% TP. Oddly enough, with Twilight/Triplus dagger, the 5% difference in Dual Wield from Nusku's Sash does not reduce your TP gain (4.49 TP/hit vs. 4.41 TP/hit, so rounded down both give 4.4 TP/hit), meaning you just attack faster, without sacrificing your TP gain. To prove a point though, let's look at the jump from 15% Dual Wield to 20% Dual Wield, which is more interesting. Assuming 24% Haste, Auric Dagger, Triplus Dagger, and 6 Store TP (from Rajas/Brutal) here's the stats from http://www.ffxiut.com/calc (if you wanna see for yourself).

20% Dual Wield:
Delay: 0.78 s
TP return: 4.5 TP/hit
x-Hit: 23 hits (22.2)
Time to 100% TP: 17.9 s
Enemy TP gain: 4.3 TP/hit
Total enemy TP: 98.8 TP

15% Dual Wield:
Delay: 0.85 s
TP return: 4.6 TP/hit
x-Hit: 22 hits (21.7)
Time to 100% TP: 18.7 s
Enemy TP gain: 4.8 TP/hit
Total enemy TP: 105.6 TP

Meaning not only do you get to 100% TP in less time, but also deal more damage in this shorter time because you're doing an additional hit. If you think the additional 16 Attack, which is less than 4% increase in your total Attack (and notice that a 4% increase in Attack does not mean a 4% increase in damage), during the melee phase makes up for a flat ~5% damage increase (not just melee, since you get to WS more often too), while also feeding less TP to the enemy (and have higher evasion too), then by all means, believe it. The math is there, make of it whatever you want.

Personally, I'd rather swing a tiny bit slower, hit harder and do massive WS damage compared to what sounds like a weaker set-up. Besides, the 31% TA and 20% DA rate makes up for the loss of 2.5% haste.

What does WS damage have to do with this? And I also have 31% TA and 11% DA (how the hell do you get 20%? There isn't that much DA gear for THF in the entire game), the only loss is 2% DA from Twilight Belt, from 13% to 11%.

I don't care much what it sounds like, the math is solid. You can play whichever way you want, the difference is marginal in the end, but don't talk down on others for their gear or playstyle.

Edit: Added values for enemy TP gain to the above example. There you can see that the latter would feed more TP to an enemey, give it 100% TP before you get that much. Without Auric Dagger the difference would be even higher.

[Karbuncle]

Attack is still useful for THF. You can immediately tell the difference between a THF using Mithkabob/nothing and a thief using Red Curry Buns, and the difference is Significant.

There is a certain point where you sacrifice too much for Attack speed. Using inferior weapons (Rapidus/Auric, as opposed to say, a STR-Magian) in the name of speed is one such going too far. you are significantly hindering your maximum possible damage-per-swing by equipping a weapon with 11 less base damage than a more useful counter-part (Rapidus vs. StR Magian), In theory your idea looks great, It shows you would attack faster so theoretically do more damage.

In practice I think if you had two THFs of the Same quality, one in your Gear set with Auric/Rapid, and one in a simple "Capped Haste" Gear set using proper weapons (for arguments Sake, STR-KILA/Triplus), You would either fall break even or the other THF would out-damage you because, You may get 4 more attacks per 100 as the other THF, but when the Other THF is hitting for 75+dmg more on Crits, its going to even out.
(Note: Not Exact Figures. Numbers Used were only as point making tools. not to be taken literally. These are not exact numbers).

I hope you see I'm only making an Observation based provided information, And I'm in no way attempting to Insult you, Your Intelligence, Or your play Style. I am Merely giving my opinion on the Situation and hope you can understand that. You're very Passionate about your Playstyle, and are a lot smarter than most THFs, for that i respect you.

[Arcon]

I hope you see I'm only making an Observation based provided information, And I'm in no way attempting to Insult you, Your Intelligence, Or your play Style. I am Merely giving my opinion on the Situation and hope you can understand that. You're very Passionate about your Playstyle, and are a lot smarter than most THFs, for that i respect you.

You never did anything like that, I was referring to Pesh. I know you're a nice guy ;p

Numbers however do matter, I did notice a slight increase in damage with Mithkabobs, mostly on WS, not on average hits, a bit more with Yellow Curry, didn't try Red Curry yet. I wouldn't even call that significant, as I said, personally I only noticed it on WS, not at all on melee hits, although I didn't parse it, but I guess I'll do that sometime soon.

And even Mithkabobs give 60 Attack (~15% increase over my standard Attack), not 16 (~4%), which should barely matter. A THFs crit damage is capped very low anyway (inside abyssea too, before damage increasing Atmas), not only because of generally low weapon damage, but also because of the inherently low weapon rank. Only Relic/Mythic/Empyrean and Angr Harpe exceed rank 4.

Here's a parse of my THF in Abyssea - Uleguerand killing Spectators (was for over 8 hours, with a couple of unexpected naps in between):
Target: Spectator
Accuracy: 10327/10870 (95.0%)
Damage Range: 17-200
Average: 49.5
Critical Hit Rate: 8269/10327 (80.0%)
Critical Hit Damage Range: 86-983
Critical Hit Average: 144.3
Total Damage: 1294437

(Notice the extremely beautiful accuracy and critical hit rate values^^)

I'll repeat that sometime soon with Attack food and see how it will affect the total results, but as you can see average critical hit damage is roughly 3x melee hit, so if you factor out the critical hit damage bonus (~38%), that brings it to pretty much 2.1x melee damage for critical hits. For that matter, I could also repeat it using the other setup with Twilight/Triplus and see how far I'll get. I don't have a Kila, but since I'll never get one, I can't really test that.

[Insaniac]

I believe twilight belt and a DW+Crit rate or DA augmented ACP body or Loki's (with abyssea crit rates) maths out slightly better than nusku's and empyrean body +2. Haven't done the specifics since the new body came out but it beat out Rapparee by quite a bit. I don't think the 1% haste and 5 skill would push it that much closer. Either way I won't be full timing a belly shirt any time soon =)

Edit: I run Mandau/Triplus so this math may not apply to you.

[Leylah]

In regards to current job abilities, I only have two complaints for THF.

Mug: Should also be able to use it on NPCs.
Steal: Should also work on AH. Let's face it, a Pyrosoul Ring is just too expensive nowadays.
Flee: After committing a crime, who escapes by foot nowadays? Flee should summon a getaway chocobo and last at least two minutes.

We need two new JAs!

Robbery: A more effective version of steal that works on NPC vendors with poor security personnel and no video cameras.
Grand Larceny: Available at lvl90. Stealing, pickpocketing and mugging are for noob THFs. It's time we start aiming bigger.

[Pesh]

And I also have 31% TA and 11% DA (how the hell do you get 20%? There isn't that much DA gear for THF in the entire game), the only loss is 2% DA from Twilight Belt, from 13% to 11%.

Atheling, Brutal, Twilight, VV = 20%

And if you're so hump happy over Homam Hands, why aren't you using Ocelot?

[Insaniac]

VV is only 5% DA but don't forget Epona's ring!

[Kaeoni]

After reading all this, I'll still continue to use my 25-26% haste builds because of how haste compounds.

For giggles did anyone remember Twilight daggers existence and how it can actually eliminate an entire attack round or 2? 20% TP drain activation. up to 10 tp.