Thie... Treasure Hunter ideas

[Babygyrl]

No. No. No. No. No!

When I'm in an Abyssea party (rare now because I have nothing left to merit), I will solo my own mob in about the same time it takes 6 idiots to whack away at another one. Sending me out to pull would considerably slow down kill speeds and exp rates.

In fact, I'd ask every party invite if I'd have to pull. If they said yes, I'd tell them to kick rocks and have a nice life.

Don't degrade the fact that THF has been elevated to one of the highest damage dealers after being crapped on for so long. We should not be pulling because we're already tanking. It's ignorant comments like this that make me hate other Thieves.

I understand how you feel but pulling is always been part of a thiefs job.. at least in ffxi it has been.. i enjoy pulling entice would be a nice thing for that to use. It would also be great for theifs who enjoy tanking too.if it would work like voke that is.. not if it were hate free though id rather have it cause hate this way if i need to be healed for some reason its not automatically after my healer..

[LordTrey]

I much prefer the current position of THF as one of the best damage dealers over spending time pulling. Let BRDs and other support type jobs do the pulling. Damage dealers should be doing the killing.

[Imole]

Id like to have an Enmity Douse ability like BLM has not every situation wanrants you getitng and holding hate. It would be nice to let that 4k eviseration hate disapear...

[LordTrey]

There is always a worse DD than a THF (as a job) is some pickup abyssea alliance. And there are NON dd job that are great at pulling an should be doing all of it. THF hasn't needed to pull in years, abyssea just makes this even more the case.

Personally I don't like pullers that can't sleep mobs. I hate to need to use the attention of 2 players to do the pulling of 1.

[Delvish]

There is always a worse DD than a THF (as a job) is some pickup abyssea alliance. And there are NON dd job that are great at pulling an should be doing all of it. THF hasn't needed to pull in years, abyssea just makes this even more the case.

Personally I don't like pullers that can't sleep mobs. I hate to need to use the attention of 2 players to do the pulling of 1.

Two things on this statement.
1. Pulling is an excellent way to cap out your evasion skill after updates. Quite frequently I was in Aby-Tahrongi pulling Mandies up to 4-5 at a time and purposefully Aeolian Edging them all to come to me while the rest of the group focused on one or two at a time. Granted, the entire purpose was evasion skill-ups and there are plenty of other methods of doing so, this worked best for me.
2. Outside of BRD, no other job can effectively pull and sleep multiple mobs at once (or at least not without a significant degree of risk). BLM or SCH in particular, because all it takes is a poorly timed interrupt and now all 3ish mobs are attacking you and constantly interrupting. I find that THF, DNC, PLD, and/or NIN are among the best pullers for multiple mobs unless you have a dedicated sleeper (then any job will suffice).
Yes, we can be doing something else better, but talking specifically pulling jobs those four are the most efficient in loo of a sleeper. PLD probably more-so than others because they fail at anything else.

[Strife]

Pulling isn't for EXP only, nor is EXP a major part of the game to get so upset about.

Very true, my group usually use THF or NIN to pull large groups of mobs in Abyssea for Fell Cleave. Our evasion & flee make us best suited for this, of course entice wouldn't be useful in this situation but it might be for a situation where you are pulling a NM but can't wait for a clean pull because there's competition -and there is a lot of competition for KI NMs in Abyssia can't wait for server merge, thanks a lot SE you know just how to ruin a guys day ; ;- though even in these situations links can be slept or the THF can run of & de-pop them or die. Entice would be useful but I don't think it's all that necessary.

I agree with Pesh in one respect though I hate pulling in XP parties especially since I am often tanking the mob, let a lesser DD do it, at least then you wont get a Benny Hill scene with the THF running away to pull & the mob running after them followed by the rest of the alliance following the mob lol.

Some THFs need to realize that they're neither the best DD nor the best tank, nor the best combination of both.

This is true in a general sense but often -and especualy in XP parties- the other jobs that are designed to be heavier DD aren't geared/ being played as well as the THF so the THF beats them hands down, you need to look at the strengths & weakness of the people in your party & play to them.

PLD probably more-so than others because they fail at anything else.

LOL.

[AyinDygra]

Given the replies so far are directed mostly at Entice (I should have probably put that in the middle of the group, since people seem to latch onto the last idea presented in groups, even if it's the least important of the bunch), I'm guessing most liked the new options to steal temporary items and intangibles. I hope SE also thinks thieves should be stealing more often and more things. That being the case, Caution and Distract are two of my favorite ideas for Thief, bringing back a useful trait that made me more likely to make one of my characters a Thief in past games and an ability that allows Thief to use its abilities in not-so-perfect situations.

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Hopefully, those new steal abilities WILL allow thieves to focus on being better damage dealers. Clearly "Snatch" would be dependent on what SE's monster designers make available to be stolen from each monster (probably family-based at first, to make the ability usable on all monsters, aside from NMs that could have unique items and battle dynamics). In this way, snatch could present new opportunities to enhance THF damage potential on NMs in the form of temp items normally found only in special battlefields.

Snatch considerations: I'm not saying monsters would give you a revitalizer every 1min or something crazy, but I could see a lower powered/duration version of stalwart's tonic, a +5 stat version of Braver's drink that has a lower duration, as well as little potions (as you may remember most monsters in FF6 dropped potions.) Beastmen may have items like grenades and bombs (Qiqirn). Now, I wouldn't be opposed to another adjustment to the "Snatch" command: Temporary Items gained through this command, once used, could potentially reset the "snatch" cooldown timer to higher than 1min, if they're stronger items. Just a thought, to keep it from being "overpowered."

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Another idea I had tossed around would be a steal command like "Sabotage" that could do unique things to newer monsters, especially NMs, changing the mode of an enemy. Notice how this could be integrated into 2 existing examples of monster behavior:
* Mamool Ja, Qutrub, Lamia and Imp enemies: you could Sabotage their weapons without needing to break the weapon with a crit.
* Acroliths: you could Sabotage them by making them blow up parts of their body, disabling different special attacks.
A couple new examples:
* The Bird family: you could Sabotage their flight feathers, decreasing their attack speed.
* The Uragnite family: You could sabotage their shell, reducing their physical damage resistance.

To make the "Sabotage" idea work, it would be best if alternate methods of changing the monsters modes existed, as can be demonstrated with the Mamool Ja (crits) and Acroliths (body parts are blown up by the NM's own actions). In this way, groups that do not include a Thief could still benefit from these monster quirks, but including a Thf would make them triggerable.

edit: the more I think about Sabotage, the more it sounds like a way to make Despoil more useful. Of course, I'd like to see Despoil's timer split from steal as well, especially if this effect is added to it. Then... maybe make Sabotage a 99Merit Trait that adds this effect to Despoil, although, I'd like to see this in use before level 99.

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Just some more thoughts.

[Karbuncle]

Hmmm, From your stand point, What do you feel the best THF Set would be then for general Melee? It won't get me out of 24% Haste and 5/5+2 inside of Abyssea, but outside I'm still in debate on the best combo.

You can link me to a FFXIAH Item Set.

[Arcon]

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/205523

1st option:
This set has 30% Dual Wield (40% with /NIN), 24% Haste.

2nd option:
Full AF3+2 with Twilight Belt would have 25% Dual Wield (35% with /NIN), 24% Haste.

3 AF3+2 pieces vs. 5 AF3+2 pieces. Since it hasn't been measured enough to determine the exact proc rate, we'll just go with 5% difference between those two (although current testing suggests it to be even lower). So assuming 5% with 3/5, 10% with 5/5.

Now with option 1, we would have (1-0.4)*(1-0.24) = 45.6% delay. Option 2 would be at (1-0.35)*(1-0.24) = 49.4% delay. Meaning, in 100 attacks option 1 would get 8 extra attacks in.

Assuming a 5% set activation rate for option 1, that would mean 35%*5% = 1.75% activation rate. Set 2 on the other hand would have 3.5% activation rate. When the effect activates, the second and third hit are tripled, offhand swing is swallowed, although I won't count that for now. That means a ~133% damage increase per activation (100% if you count the missing offhand swing).

So to compare..

1st option:
108 hits with 1.75% activation rate, so would activate on 1.89 hits, meaning..
Hits = (108-1.89) + (1.89*2.33) = 108 + 1.89*2.33 = 110.5

2nd option:
100 hits with 3.5% activation rate, so would activate on 3.5 hits, meaning..
Hits = (100-3.5) + (3.5*2.33) = 100 + 3.5*1.33 = 104.7

Which means in the same time, option 1 would give 5.5% more hits. Now remember, this is without consideration for the missing offhand hit, for the fact that it's quite probably a far lower activation rate than suggested here and for any kind of other Haste you get from spells or Haste Samba, which would make the difference in Dual Wield even stronger. Daggers don't matter for this, since all of these effects are applied to the number of hits, so it will scale to whichever weapon you use.

[Karbuncle]

Actually, All 3 Hits are "Tripled' not the second and third hit (That information is massively outdated)

I know it won't change the math much, But all 3 Hits of the Triple Attack do Triple Damage.

edit: Are you taking into account the adjusted proc rate of the Set bonus due to having 2 weapons (Dual wield) In which Triple attack can proc? Set Bonus can Proc Main or Off hand. That Essentially Doubles its possible activation rate yes :O?