The nerf scattergun approach?

[Arcon]

Right, Because when a Company who just a few months ago promised us "No nerfs, Only Buffs", [..]

They didn't, though. It was mentioned that that was pertinent to the update in question, not as a generic rule for all their future releases.

While Runespider may be making multiple threads "whining", he as a customer is entitled to such act, [..]

Sadly, everyone is.

Nerfs are never and should never be the answer to job adjustments. [..]

Nerfs are quite simply never the solution, and frankly, its the "easy way out" when it comes to job adjustments. Its far easier in the name of "balance" to nerf one job, than to try and buff others around it.

I'd agree that the current round of nerfs was unnecessary but as a blanket statement I can't let this go undisputed. Sometimes it is in the best interest of absolutely everyone to nerf one job and that's when the job is absolutely overpowered. That point is when the difference between a buff and a bug is hard to tell. Bugs are intellectual errors whereas buffs can be errors of judgment. If they made such an error of judgment and overpowered something to ridiculous levels (possibly without realizing it), then it can and should be nerfed. Because there's two sides to balance in a game like this, once the balance between classes, but also the balance between players and content. If you keep buffing everyone up to the levels of one ridiculously overpowered job, content loses its meaning as it's possible to plow through it with zero effort. That point should never arise (they came damn close to it in Abyssea). The only logical reason to remedy such a situation is to nerf the one overpowered jobs to reasonable levels.

Again, not saying this is appropriate here, but I hate generalizations like that (despite my malevolent pleasure about the pet TH nerf, which I admit is purely personal jealousy). Generalizations never work.

[..] But the problem most of you fail to understand is the the phrase the customer is always right is WRONG. [..]

Sadly, that is often lost on people thinking they're entitled to more than just an opinion.

[zagam]

Its sad that noone seems to see that Abyssea broke balance and that what ppl call nerfs are fixes that have to be done sooner or later.
The Game is way to easy now. Period.
Its not fun - because its easy. I dont want things handed to me. I wanna work for it.

And while yes sometimes its nice to get something..... do you feel any acomplishment in anything anymore?

Abyssea was OK. As casual Content. But at the same time ppl got used to the easy pace. 9 of 10 Players outright suck and Leech. Ppl you woulda kicked from Pt before for beeing useless.

Idc what you ppl think honesly. Things have to change. Rather sooner then later.

Careful with that talk, any opinion not equal to the OF crowd = white knight.

[Ravenmore]

No the customer is always right cause if you piss them off the have the option taking thier money other places. SE doesn't just compete with other MMOS they going up against movies, TV, music(concerts, iTunes etc), other hobbies everything that people pay for. While customer Ideas of getting to the point were the product is worth it may differ they would also be happy improvements were even attempted.

[Karbuncle]

They didn't, though. It was mentioned that that was pertinent to the update in question, not as a generic rule for all their future releases.

Its been a while, But i recall it being released around the same time as the Road-map and the Future-Job Adjustment updates.

Those do change over time, But generally, we expect maybe a few months of kept promises before they go back on them!

Sadly, everyone is.

This isn't sad at all.

I'd agree that the current round of nerfs was unnecessary but as a blanket statement I can't let this go undisputed. Sometimes it is in the best interest of absolutely everyone to nerf one job and that's when the job is absolutely overpowered.

I mean if they really broke a job, Yah, nerfing is a good idea. But outside of maybe Ukko's Fury, There hasn't been a job really broken, not for a 99 cap anyway. Most of the Nerfs hitting us right now are not falling under the category of absolutely overpowered.

Still, I agree with you, Maybe generalizations aren't good, But thats more nitpicking my post than anything. My intent was clear. Nerfing jobs at random is going to just piss people off. None of the things they nerfed were really needing to be nerfed.

Save TP is the only thing i can think of that may have needed a knocking down. It was a tad overpowered... a good WAR could WS > hit 2x > WS > hit 2x > WS etc... But i think a Better solution would have been to impose a Cap (Maybe +40?) Rather than reworking it completely as they have now.

The Way it is now just sh*t on COR, imposing a CAP would still keep COR's Roll Useful.

Sadly, that is often lost on people thinking they're entitled to more than just an opinion.

This is more toward Knightly, Not you. I personally believe the adage, "The Customer is always right" to be complete Bullshit lol. I never said He was right, Just that he had the right to express his distaste.

Still, when the majority of your customers disagree with your direction, Shown not only in loud multiple complaints across a lot of threads, But in the declining Player-base, You need to take notice. Sometimes a bad decision is a bad decision.

Careful with that talk, any opinion not equal to the OF crowd = white knight.

Blindly defending a bad choice makes you a White Knight. There is nothing positive about the BST nerf, or Save TP nerf. It hurts both COR and BST tremendously where they were previously useful. It was just a bad choice on SE's part.

Your anger is quite unbecoming. You should not be so upset with me. I respect your decision and your choice in the matter, I just don't agree with it. Tell me what reasons you believe these Nerfs to be justified and I can easily repeal my assumption you are just blindly defending Square Enix.

[zagam]

No the customer is always right cause if you piss them off the have the option taking thier money other places. SE doesn't just compete with other MMOS they going up against movies, TV, music(concerts, iTunes etc), other hobbies everything that people pay for. While customer Ideas of getting to the point were the product is worth it they would also be happy improvements were even attempted.

You have never worked in any customer service industry have you? I have and told customers to leave after repeated complaints. It was obvious that no matter how many times or how many ways my chef couldn't cook the steak how she wanted. It came to the point where loosing more money on wasted product trying to keep her happy was more then what we would get in return. Ive also had people complain about the music choices, the music was part of our atmosphere and wont change. Just because customers might not like it doesn't mean the company is going to change it to appease the complainer. If you have ever seen the movie waiting you would understand why the customers are not always right. If you have a concern by all means complain. But like that girl with the steak in waiting its they way you come across that will get you results.

[Eri]

Careful with that talk, any opinion not equal to the OF crowd = white knight.

Rather White Knight then delusional. I see it that way... FFXI always was hard and there where always ppl that didnt like that. Abyssea was heaven for this kind of Players i can accept that.
I can see that there has to be content that can be done effective casualy.

However. A lot of older players quit over this content. Now these players that liked abyssea go into conent wich is obviously not made for players which are into that easy pace concept.

Now its crying and whineing about not being Gods. But in order to keep this Game interesting for both kinds of Players...
SE seems to be trying to get the Players back that quit. In order to do that.... they adjust things that are more soloplay then anything else.

[Arcon]

No the customer is always right cause if you piss them off the have the option taking thier money other places.

For any company/business with no self-respect, sure. I'd rather not take money from customers if it meant I wouldn't have to cater to their idiotic requests.

Also, you're assuming customers have a brain, which is a most ridiculous assumption. Customers are morons. If a customer came into a restaurant and asked specifically for a turd sandwich, you'd make him one and then have him puke on your counter and write an article about how you served disgusting food? Good for you, most people wouldn't. It's the same here. People ask for stuff that they think they like, but that would kill the game, however, they are too selfish and too self involved to realize.

Though that has absolutely nothing at all to do with the topic here, was just about that "the customer is right" stuff in general.

[Karbuncle]

Rather White Knight then delusional. I see it that way... FFXI always was hard and there where always ppl that didnt like that. Abyssea was heaven for this kind of Players i can accept that.
I can see that there has to be content that can be done effective casualy.

However. A lot of older players quit over this content. Now these players that liked abyssea go into conent which is obviously not made for players which are into that easy pace concept.

Now its crying and whineing about not being Gods. But in order to keep this Game interesting for both kinds of Players...
SE seems to be trying to get the Players back that quit. In order to do that.... they adjust things that are more soloplay then anything else.

FFXI Was never hard. I mean that in Difficulty of enemies...

It was tedious, Theres a difference. The difficulty was artificially created by low drop rates, and limited spawn timers (24hr HNMs, etc).

The game was as easy then as it is now. Nothing at 75 was difficult outside of AV, and PW, and I'd go as far to say Botulus Rex is about as difficult as PW was in some ways. (Outside of you know, 2 days and vomiting)

[Arcon]

Still, I agree with you, Maybe generalizations aren't good, But thats more nitpicking my post than anything. My intent was clear. Nerfing jobs at random is going to just piss people off. None of the things they nerfed were really needing to be nerfed.

I never meant to disagree with you at all, it was just an addendum if you will. Balance is good, balance is needed. The problem is, SE seems to have no idea what balance is anymore. All two-hours could be on a 30min timer, all 5min abilities could be on 2min and 3min timers and higher than 5min shouldn't even exist anymore (yes, I'm looking at you ugly Mug). They could increase WS damage of certain relic/mythic/empy/merit WS to be on almost par with the best of them and it still wouldn't be broken (the fact that there's relic weapon skills that are worse than normal weapon skills gained from leveling up is retarded in itself), they could release complete gear upgrades instead of sidegrades and situational pieces and it still wouldn't be broken, they could release a combination staff for magical trial staves and it still wouldn't be broken, if they increased the VW HQ item drop rates by just 2%, that also wouldn't be broken. There's so much stuff they could do that they're needlessly afraid of that wouldn't overpower anyone, yet they don't. That's the real problem.

[zagam]

Blindly defending a bad choice makes you a White Knight. There is nothing positive about the BST nerf, or Save TP nerf. It hurts both COR and BST tremendously where they were previously useful. It was just a bad choice on SE's part.

Your anger is quite unbecoming. You should not be so upset with me. I respect your decision and your choice in the matter, I just don't agree with it. Tell me what reasons you believe these Nerfs to be justified and I can easily repeal my assumption you are just blindly defending Square Enix.

What choice was I defending actually? because I wasn't Defending anything specific at all. Just because You like to throw subtle insults then try to come off the bigger person doesn't make your opinion any more valid. I don't like nerfs as much as the next guy but I don't get wrapped up in the bandwagon hate as easily as you/some people. And the Umad card? really? I expected better from you. I may not post a lot but I do read the forums and didn't peg you as one of those people.

But I guess ill take a page from your book and know not to argue with close minded people. I don't want to ask the wind not to blow either.
Thank you for your time.