Battle Balance Adjustment: TP Gained through Use of a Weaponskill

[saevel]

I want to hear you reasoning on this. The way I see it, SE trashed miser's roll, which pretty much made things worse for every other dd out there. Now, they're saying that hagakure is being boosted. It's a small boost, but it's still a boost. When I see the majority off dds being worse off and see one job given a boost for compensation, I'd say that there's some favoritism going on in regards to SAM.

But go ahead, show me how my thinking is wrong.

That's because the way Hagakure is now, once they make this change it won't do anything. The nerf to Save TP is also a Nerf to SAM as they can no longer use Hagakure to jump to the next WS. SE is upping the value so that it's not completely worthless as an ability.

So yes, SE is nerfing SAM, just not as hard as their nerfing Misers roll.

[Aldersyde]

That's because the way Hagakure is now, once they make this change it won't do anything. The nerf to Save TP is also a Nerf to SAM as they can no longer use Hagakure to jump to the next WS. SE is upping the value so that it's not completely worthless as an ability.

So yes, SE is nerfing SAM, just not as hard as their nerfing Misers roll.

Which is basically what I said. All dds get nerfed on save tp but sam got a boost to hagakure, even if it is small. It's the equivalent of a pat on the head and saying "Don't worry, we still love you!", while basically telling every other dd to suck it. It was totally unnecessary when SAM is a very strong job as is.

Inb4 some sam starts whining about how they were hosed in abyssea.

[SpankWustler]

Going from +20 Save TP to +40 Save TP will keep Hagakure pretty the same for Samurai after the change, assuming a five-hit build. It makes sense that it should remain roughly the same; Hagakure is a 3 minute recast ability that lasts one weaponskill. The effect should be nice.

The Development Bros okaying the more-or-less current effects of Hagakure taking place ever begs the question, though. What's so overwhelming about Miser's Roll when not combined with other (typically Voidwatch-specific) sources of extra TP that it can not be adjusted as well? Do the Development Bros just dislike miserly people?

Maybe the adjustment shouldn't be as drastic as that of Hagakure, since Miser's Roll is active forever and ever. I still don't understand the reasoning behind updating one ability to retain it's current use and leaving the other as highly, highly situational.

[saevel]

Which is basically what I said. All dds get nerfed on save tp but sam got a boost to hagakure, even if it is small. It's the equivalent of a pat on the head and saying "Don't worry, we still love you!", while basically telling every other dd to suck it. It was totally unnecessary when SAM is a very strong job as is.

Inb4 some sam starts whining about how they were hosed in abyssea.

Wow, I didn't know other DD's had an ability that gave them Save TP on the next WS.

[Mirabelle]

Wow, I didn't know other DD's had an ability that gave them Save TP on the next WS.

Yes its that little dice icon on the top of the screen. Requires a COR to be in your party to activate.

[Pootersmash]

I also didn't realize sam was immune to that little dice symbol... They still lose the same amount of save tp as every other job. Regardless of the power of sams, I'm sure you would not be happy if the primary purpose of one of your JA's was rendered null and void due to a mechanic's change(that still shouldn't happen).

Regardless, the point still remains that save tp should not be handled in this way. Alter the atmacite, or place a cap. that is what everybody is telling you, please do it. Yes, it is overpowered in Voidwatch, so fix it there only.

[Siiri]

SAM is SE's spoiled little brat job. Certainly not shocked SE is favoring them once again.

[Leylia]

I agree with almost everyone that this change of the mechanics of save tp is the dumbest way to fix the situation we have in VW when everyone just chains WSs back to back making a brew look like it wouldn't be anything special. Not only does it seem to require more effort than simply changing the Atmacite but its changes range much further than said situation which harbors the issues. I would also plead for your cause and say keep the roll like it is and don'tmake it useless.

However, I do not see the justice in everyone bashing on the change of Hagakure. The said "boost" brings it to exactly the same point where it was before anyway, so there is no enhancement whatsoever. I have a TP return after a WS (used with Hagakure in effect) of 38-39TP and now, after the change, I will recieve 40TP. Everyone claiming this is a boost -to make the math complete, we are talking about 1-2TP every 3minutes- is not really sane. Let us now look at the roll under normal circumstances:

Let us assume our cor hit the jackpot, an 11 so the save tp amount is 25:
a) System as of now
SAM gets back 25 + 18 or 19 = 43 or 44 (+25)
THF gets back lets go as high as 25 + 12 = 37 = +25

Result both get the same benefit from the roll

b) Future system
SAM gets back 25TP = +7 or +6 from WS without save tp
THF gets back 25TP = +13 from WS without save tp

Result: Thf gets double the bonus than SAM gets from the new system

Now I wanna ask you: do you still consider SAM the big winner in this situation (which is the most beneficial for SAM, lower rolls will yield NO bonus to SAM while other jobs still would recieve some)? It works exactly like that for all other set ups as well, the bonus for lower TP return WSs and jobs is bigger than the bonus for the high tp return WSs. So compared to now, where a SAM gets the same boost as all other jobs, in the future it will get less than most others out of the save tp effect, no matter the source, no matter the amount you actually have.

Conclusion: while it is dumb to change a whole system because of one situation and while it is even more dumb to rob one of the best abilities from a job, stop complaining about SAM favoritsm here. Search that somewhere else where it might even be true, here it simply isn't.

PS: I assumed those 12TP since I do not exactly know what the average TP return is on a THF with a dagger that sports a delay of 190

[saevel]

Yes its that little dice icon on the top of the screen. Requires a COR to be in your party to activate.

So ... DDs ability's are a COR ...
Yeah you know, SAM's get those too, that JA doesn't interfere with them.

All SE did was prevent a JA from becoming less then useless.

[Aldersyde]

All SE did was prevent a JA from becoming less then useless.

How nice of them, too bad the same consideration wasn't given to COR's JA....unless you think that the change to miser's roll is somehow beneficial now?

Hagakure wasn't even necessary when it was introduced. SAM had a pretty deep bag of tricks already.