Letter to SE (Growing Concern)

[Unctgtg]

Dear SE,

Over the last few days I have noticed that two very important threads have been deleted. The 600+ post thread about R/M/E 99 Trials, then again another one asking why it was deleted. You created the official forums asking us for our input into making this game more enjoyable and keeping the game alive for many years to come. How can you justify nuking important threads that have caused your player base, your fan base heartache, misery just thinking about them. In those threads, many players including me alike have posted ways to fix the trials themselves. Ignoring or nuking the threads I ask you: Is this a good business practice, NO. Now I am going to go out on a limb here and say you got the message that we the players are not happy. You are changing the trial system as a whole to make it where everyone can enjoy from your own words, a majority can obtain these sought after weapons.

As I have stated earlier, there are many that still enjoy your game and would like to continue to support this game for many more years to come, but when you continue your practices that have been shown in the last few days, many supporters will leave. I know SE as a business does not like Bad Press.

Sincerely Yours

[Nordya]

I just noticed it, the big thread where they posted all the answers to the Stage 1 trial. While it is common practice to delete negative threads on most of the games out there, I find this was not necessary as this will show a sign of bad faith toward the outraged playerbase.

[Arcon]

They were nuked because people were being offensive and insulting. Simple as that. If it was up to me, or anyone who has ever successfully moderated any sufficiently large forum, they would have simply banned people being insulting to the development team or other SE staff. Saves them a lot of trouble and weeds out the part of the playerbase that shouldn't get a vote anyway.

The thread itself was just collateral damage in the measures taken to get rid of said offensive posts. It's true there was some actual discussion going on, but not much. It's easier to nuke a thread than to delete 80% of the posts and leave an incoherent mess.

[Dreamin]

They were nuked because people were being offensive and insulting. Simple as that. If it was up to me, or anyone who has ever successfully moderated any sufficiently large forum, they would have simply banned people being insulting to the development team or other SE staff. Saves them a lot of trouble and weeds out the part of the playerbase that shouldn't get a vote anyway.

The thread itself was just collateral damage in the measures taken to get rid of said offensive posts. It's true there was some actual discussion going on, but not much. It's easier to nuke a thread than to delete 80% of the posts and leave an incoherent mess.

There's other tools available to the modulator as well:
- Lock the thread if they feel the discussion is going way off track or out of hand
- Delete the posts of those that are offensive (they've done that before in other threads)
- Ban the offensive posters.

Typically as forum modulator (elsewhere), nuking a thread is only done to eliminate spam bot OP.

[Camiie]

They were nuked because people were being offensive and insulting. Simple as that. If it was up to me, or anyone who has ever successfully moderated any sufficiently large forum, they would have simply banned people being insulting to the development team or other SE staff. Saves them a lot of trouble and weeds out the part of the playerbase that shouldn't get a vote anyway.

The thread itself was just collateral damage in the measures taken to get rid of said offensive posts. It's true there was some actual discussion going on, but not much. It's easier to nuke a thread than to delete 80% of the posts and leave an incoherent mess.

So, they fight abuse on the forums the same way they fought RMT in FFXI... with nukes instead of conventional tactical strikes. It's the easy way. The lazy way. Push button warfare! By now I guess we shouldn't expect much else from them. Heck, the easy way is the way they're running the whole game these days.

[cidbahamut]

There's other tools available to the modulator as well:
- Lock the thread if they feel the discussion is going way off track or out of hand
- Delete the posts of those that are offensive (they've done that before in other threads)
- Ban the offensive posters.

Typically as forum modulator (elsewhere), nuking a thread is only done to eliminate spam bot OP.

This.

Nuking a legitimate thread is your absolute last resort and will almost always backfire when nuking a highly controversial topic that the community is actively engaged in discussing. I've seen this play out before in other communities, and heavy handed moderation always fosters resentment. Locking threads will get people grumbling, but nuking threads is what drives them to get their pitchforks and torches.

[Ryce]

inb4 this thread gets Jhanaka'd.

[Washburn]

I used to work for a call center for a very reputable window/door company. I was subcontracted by the parent company, they basically paid my company $16/hr to hire me for $7/hr so they didnt have to worry about hiring or benefits... The french doors had crappy spindles and they broke often, hoever, when the spindle broke, homeowners would call to order replacments, only to find that the tiny cheap metal part was $20 plus $10 shipping. Its a rediculous price but theyre stuck. Theyd get mad and hang up, only to be stuck calling back to buy it later. We got commission based on a service level, call times, sales, etc. if the calls were taking too long, theyd have someone dedicated to just taking calls and immediately hanging up, of there werent enough calls, people got sent home.

Someone hacked my xbox live account back in july and bought 10,000 points and tried to gift them to another account, so i called and dealt with their customer service and it took ~30 calls, 8 supervisors, and 2 months before i finally realized the call center was bullshit and was not directly owned by the parent company. It was a call center just like the one i worked for. I ended up posing as a magazine editor and called a main office in seattle, asked to talk to the head of xbox live (forgot his name). The receptionist gave me his extention TO HIS CELL PHONE. I called and within an hour i had my refund, 6 months of free gold service, got to keep the 10,000 points, and got reimbursed for the 2 months i was locked out of my account.

I'm seeing the same BS pattern here. I'm pretty sure playonline, camate & his cronies, the moderators, are probably all just hired in the same manner. Total garbage customer support and a broken tie between consumer and the parent company. Notice how nothing gets done when the masses demand certain things. Also notice how long it takes camate to translate stuff. We usually have it figured out before they tell us.

When i get home from work in the morning, I'm gonna see if i can find a route around camate, around POL, around this forum and directly email tanaka or whatever his name is. If that doesn't work, ill go right to square enix with it and pull the magazine editor stunt if i have to. Regardless, it seems like all of our rants, requests, and suggestions arent reaching the right people, and if the people cashing the check sees this BS trial as a negative investment, they will change it.

Either way, I'm done feeling like that small, front section of porcelain on public toilets that everyones junk drags across when you sit down on the toilet (because they don't have full toilet seats). Actually, i feel more like the back center that has lint and ass hair. Maybe the two combined. Either way, i don't feel like the routes were using to voice is doing anything but dragging this issue out to keep someone looking busy so they have a job to do.

[Nala]

funny you mentioned the xbox thing, i just had a similiar issiue back before christmas, i hadn't been using my xbox much so i only found out about it last week, they purchased 22k points, when i checked my account i had 20 as in 00,020.00 though i didnt have as much difficulty as you did with thier customer service mine's just "under investigation"

[Jhanaka]

Hello Folks!

We are sorry that we caused concern over the thread in question; sometimes we must remove the ability to see the thread so we can moderate improper comments made. As large threads require a bit of review, sometimes it can be a few hours before we can set the thread "live" again.

In regards to threads asking where threads went too, we remove those as they are generally "off topic" and not fully relate to the theme of the forums. We understand your desire to know what is happening, especially to popular threads, but you can be sure there are checks and balances in place to ensure that mods are not abusing their power.

I am going to close this thread, I hope I have addressed the concerns voiced.

Thanks for your concern and we appreciate your understanding.

-Senior Game Master Jhanaka