New RDM spell idea

[Seriha]

The job doesn't need gimmicks, it doesn't need parlor tricks and it most certainly doesn't need an ability that ties it to one aspect of the game, just because you don't have enough back bone to tell people that you will be playing how you want to play.

One shouldn't need a backbone to play the job to its concept. There should be no stink raised when someone even tries. The fact it happens at all is a strong indicator something is lacking, and for all your himhawwing about wanting to be a team player, you're advocating exactly the opposite. Again, your blinders are on if you think all I'm shooting for is to just compete with other jobs. Until you can get it through your noggin that boosts to enfeebling and enhancing can actually be achieved through melee, helping to create a useful niche and job identity (as well as incentive to help people gear their RDM friends and shellmates for melee), you're going to continue risk erring the job into an unfun and -1 state otherwise married to its subjob to be useful to the party. I didn't sign up to be a wannabe WHM, stun whore, or the BRD that never was. You're nuts if you think targetable Gains or some minor tweaks to Enfeebling skill will fix everything.

[Greatguardian]

Good god, stop playing with pickups/jerks and shut the hell up.

So sick and tired of this persecution complex bullshit. Play with friends and no one will give a shit what you do either way. This is about our spell arsenal, not the public opinion poll for the acceptability of Red Mage Melee.

[Seriha]

Some people like trying to make more friends from those PUGs you're calling for them to avoid, nevermind the objective exclusion of RDM in the more casual friendly spheres due to lacking procs and minimalistic group policies rooted in having less mouths to feed. The need for EXP/Limits is, for now, also finite. Sorry I'm not just plugging my ears and ignoring a prevalent problem that can be fixed.

[Mageoholic]

Then tell people to fuck off, if they want you to play their way then they can pay for your account. Its a game not a job, and if you don't find yourself having fun because other people "don't let you" then that is your business. Been over this with you many times before. As long as you are doing what you were invited to do, people don't give a shit what else you do.

Unfortunately RDM isn't invited to do anything because it offers nothing that isn't available from it as a support job, and no increasing its melee viability isn't going to magically get it a party invite, increasing its healing viability won't magically get it an invite, increasing its nuking capability won't magically get it an invite. Unless SE of course makes RDM better then a WAR, or WHM, or BLM.

Again the only way we will be sought after is if we can provide something useful to the group that either stacks with other abilities/buffs/debuffs, or is unique in its own way. At this point that is Enhancing and Enfeebling changes, and again to hell with your melee oriented buffs, Id I don't feel like meleeing I don't want to be forced to do so to apply buffs and debuffs. Currently I can buff and debuff while meleeing healing nuking, which is versatile, every mob I engage I can perform a different task, while supporting the party.

Grow a back bone already, you been moaning for years about this melee shit, while some of us have actually been doing it for years, because we don't let other players tell us how we should be having fun.

[Greatguardian]

Some people like trying to make more friends from those PUGs you're calling for them to avoid, nevermind the objective exclusion of RDM in the more casual friendly spheres due to lacking procs and minimalistic group policies rooted in having less mouths to feed. The need for EXP/Limits is, for now, also finite. Sorry I'm not just plugging my ears and ignoring a prevalent problem that can be fixed.

Casual-friendly spheres? Excluding Red Mage because they lack procs and the group values efficiency and minimalism?

The hell is casual about that?

No one gives a shit about public opinion. You don't change public opinion by throwing some gimmicks into the mix. Loldrg, Loldrk, Lolpup, and LolRdMelee are here to stay and nothing the Devs do is going to change those memes. You can either deal with it or play a different job/game.

Straight up, it won't matter how many endebuffs the Devs add to Rdm, staying in melee range is stupid for 99% of Red Mages. Why? Because the good Magical-oriented RDMs think that's fucking retarded, and the good Melee-oriented RDMs can be counted on two hands.

Public opinion isn't going to be looking at the top tier. It's going to be looking at the retarded dregs that people find in PUGs who are going to show up in their full teal (It's like the Chasuble of 2012) Joyeuse RDMs and sit there whacking away in melee range while not supporting anyone. I do not give a fuck if that sort of image applies to anyone in this subforum (though I know it does for a couple people), because all that matters is that these fuckups are the ones ruining public opinion of RdMelee for you and yours. And you know what? Giving them more reasons to put their retardation on display in a large group setting is not the way to improve public acceptance of your sword.

If you want to not be made fun of by the people around you, take some god damn initiative and improve yourself so that you're functional among people who accept your style. If you're a retard who only melees and never casts a spell on another player, well then you're shit outta luck and I have absolutely no sympathy for you.

Tl;dr

Either way, nothing and I mean nothing that tries to throw RdMelee into the spotlight is going to affect public opinion in a positive way. Period. Why? Because the Venn Diagram of people with brains and people who melee looks like fucking this:



Does not matter one bit where anyone here lies in that diagram because the average FFXI player actually makes and melees in Macc swords.

[ManaKing]

Lol I play with friends and they still bitch about me melee-ing.

The entire environment RDM plays in is toxic BECAUSE it is not actually an acceptable job. You are always being selfish by coming RDM. Is this anyone's fault that is playing RDM? No, you pay to have fun and so if RDM is what you do for fun, that is what you do. It's the dev's fault for creating such a substandard job @ lvl 76+.

If they would let RDM actually be a real job we could actually stop most of this fighting because we wouldn't have to worry anymore about whose voice is being heard. Most of the people on this forum are scared that the way they play RDM will get pruned off just like Enfeebling was/is. Wonder why we are so heated? Because you are threatening our baby.

I personally will be pissed if either the melee or the magical side of this job gets harmed because I play both sides and enjoy them both a great deal. I would enjoy it more if the job's 2 sides worked together better, just like I wish both sides of this forum would work together. But honestly the entirety of that is solely on SE's amazing slow timeline that now comes with even more BALANCE(not speeding up the process).

Hate Speech/Personal Attacks

Really we are switching roles this week?

[Seriha]

And as long as you willingly think that way, of course nothing will change for the better. You wanna bitch about persecution? I'm looking at a poster child of closed-minded zealotry. You, as an individual, are not better because you're a "mage only" RDM. Numbers and mechanics behind them simply favor the style at present. That's it. Those can be changed. Those changes, in turn, can affect community perception no matter how much you want to meme or pretend you're a higher intellectual wielding MS Paint.

People fear change. People fear being wrong. I can understand a fear of having to relearn a job and, in turn, need to take time to bring it back up to speed. What I can't understand is the conscious desire to hold back or even cripple growth at this point for any reason other than to be antagonistic and juvenile. Playing should not be about compromises or backbones, it should be about people getting together and getting shit done. How that happens with 20 jobs out there is never set in stone. Are there overlaps and jobs in greater need? Sure. But I'm here to talk about Red Mage. I'm not here to nerf it. I'm not here to prevent its magical arsenal from growing. I apparently have a greater collective interest in its abilities on the whole, and with that, can understand why a negative response may, in turn, be perceived as holding the job back. But I also understand there's a point of no return. That's where my own fears of Pink Magery and the like lie. FFXI could be a very lonely game if I just upped and decided to tell everyone to fuck off when I felt like playing RDM. Unfortunately, this reality also exists when faced with universal underpeformance and I believe that's the reality some are more keenly aware of at the moment, if only because their preferred style happens to fall under that broad umbrella.

Love me, hate me, or practice indifference, but there's a difference between a job that is played and a job that you want to play. From the outside looking in, we can only hope an individual is playing a job because they want to over simply needing to. A job's abilities will nonetheless influence that need. Some are willing to sacrifice aspects of that need for higher enjoyment, or even the other way around, but I petition that needn't be the case for RDM. I want everyone to play the way they want to when they want to in whatever activity they enter, but I can't, in good conscience, believe that is possible when strengths are lop-sided. And it's not because they should be, but because they'd been poorly designed and left to stagnate.

[saevel]

I don't see how the numbers favor either side honestly. Healing is substandard, melee is substandard (without CDC), enfeebling is nonexistant, buffing is substandard, and nuking is substandard. In a contest between which can do more damage (Nuking vs Melee) then melee wins every time. But honestly that's like asking who's faster, the one legged man or the man in a wheel chair. Either way their both crippled. Mage by spell selection, melee by gear selection. CDC allows you to deal decent damage, it'll never be up there with an UF WAR or VS MNK but it's not the single digits that everyone pretends it to be. Almace really is zero to hero type upgrade.

SE needs to fix both sides, they most likely won't due to fear of creating another Avesta type player. RDM is near the bottom of their priority list.

[Mageoholic]

Oh get of your throne. You always gives these speeches about woe is me woe is the job. RDM melee is fine just how it is, outside of very minor adjustments it is pretty much in the same place as all other single handed jobs. It always has been. I could go through years of banter from alla where you and people like you (Hyrist for example) have done nothing but ask for handouts, when people like myself and (primarily) Starfox have provided parse data showing RDM competeing with NIN's and Ridill wars (all be it in EXP content but in terms of % decrease going to NM's we are more or less still in the same realm). Ive never seen you post a parse of RDM melee, ever, not once. You bitch and moan and bitch and moan, yet have never even shown that you even practice what you talk so much about.

You just need to grow a pair of balls and play how you want to play. RDM melee is fine, it can cap haste, it has 2 decent weapon options it has a few solid weaponskill options, it has some decent abilities that other melee DD have. The best part is that it isn't expected to perform well, which means you aren't tied to one specific subjob, and these sweet sambas that you want to provide can be done so /DNC. (if you are married to /NIN its because you want to show off your sweet RDM melee epeen, to the group of people who don't care)

I want everyone to play the way they want to when they want to in whatever activity they enter, but I can't, in good conscience, believe that is possible when strengths are lop-sided.

By lopsided strengths I assume you mean the greatness that is enfeebling? or enhancing? or healing?. At present 2 parts of RDM are good, nuking and melee, 1 is mediocre, healing, and 2 are completely ass fucked beyond reason, enhancing and enfeebling.

You talk about your wish for versatility, yet along with lolSaev talk nothing of what would be nice for melee. what would be great for melee is actually getting invited to a group in the first place, and I promise you that RDM will never be asked to come as a melee DD no matter how much SE buffs it, because there are 8 other jobs sitting in that same fucking line that will be at SE's throats if RDM was better then them by a clear margin.

You are out of touch with this job, and this game, and are a push over.

Ive been meleeing for 7 years on RDM, you have been crying about it for at least 4. in the infamous words of Woody Allen, its time to nut up or shut up.

[Seriha]

The best part is that it isn't expected to perform well...

Self-sabotage isn't healthy.

You talk about your wish for versatility, yet along with lolSaev talk nothing of what would be nice for melee.

Short memory, I guess.

Like I say in the post, there's more than one way to the goal, just like how I inferred RDMs could boost curative support to those engaged by fighting the same mob as the RDM. What else do you want? Cite all's good because we can cap gear Haste and some can get CDC, but that doesn't change other jobs growing beyond that. Temper is a good iteration of melee traits in magic form, but more could still be done.

Not once have I ever said enfeebling's accuracy isn't a concern. I've even gone on to say that if we're really meant to be enfeeblers, our arsenal needs to improve. I know you also posted in the WHM/Boost thread, but I guess you're also quick to forget the post I made touching on practically every enhancing spell in the game which would also influence RDM. Yet, here you are, still championing /RDM has been the end of days for us and even advocating skill-based nerfs under the guise of buffs.

Whatever the idea I propose or support, you're most certainly not the one I'm trying to convince, though. I'm not really keen on the whole suffering in silence mentality, either, much as some of you want to believe I'm sitting here with a spent box of kleenex every time someone scoffs at a melee RDM.