Enmity

[Greatguardian]

Ok that would explain it then. I had a hard time understanding how you could be hitting that turtle so hard, but we did the fight without any atma. So it takes you from not hitting to 200 damage a hit. Lol nice, i really do need to get me some of that

... No. For like the 20th time in two days, you completely misunderstood what I wrote.

"I wouldn't be hitting Chukwa without Atma." means I would absolutely not be dumb enough to go into Abyssea and fight an NM without equipping my Atma first. Why would I waste my time with that? Trying to compare anything in Abyssea with or without Atma is just asinine, since anyone with an ounce of sense would be equipping their Atma if they have it.

[Dale]

... No. For like the 20th time in two days, you completely misunderstood what I wrote.

"I wouldn't be hitting Chukwa without Atma." means I would absolutely not be dumb enough to go into Abyssea and fight an NM without equipping my Atma first. Why would I waste my time with that? Trying to compare anything in Abyssea with or without Atma is just asinine, since anyone with an ounce of sense would be equipping their Atma if they have it.

It's not asinine lol Maybe they just started doing abyssea, and haven't had a chance to get atma yet.

[Greatguardian]

It's not asinine lol Maybe they just started doing abyssea, and haven't had a chance to get atma yet.

But sorry I misunderstood you

It doesn't bother me, but lack of Atmas doesn't speak for the job as a whole. A person in particular not having Atmas is fine. But that person wouldn't be a useful representative of damage on NMs either. There is the general case, and then the specific anecdotal case. For the purposes of job discussion, the general case is almost always a safer bet.

[Dale]

It doesn't bother me, but lack of Atmas doesn't speak for the job as a whole. A person in particular not having Atmas is fine. But that person wouldn't be a useful representative of damage on NMs either. There is the general case, and then the specific anecdotal case. For the purposes of job discussion, the general case is almost always a safer bet.

I'm not even sure what that meant. So i'll refrain from commenting at the risk of misunderstanding you again

But I will just say this. Even taking into account high end atma, the monk may be able to put out more damage than a Paladin - but he will never be able to heal himself effectively. And I do think this advantage is overlooked by too many paladins, and does contribute to this self-loathing many paladins seem to have about their job. It is a real and significant advantage they have over other tanks with higher offenses - and does help balance it out.

[Zagen]

But I will just say this. Even taking into account high end atma, the monk may be able to put out more damage than a Paladin - but he will never be able to heal himself effectively. And I do think this advantage is overlooked by too many paladins, and does contribute to this self-loathing many paladins seem to have about their job. It is a real and significant advantage they have over other tanks with higher offenses - and does help balance it out.

Please read this: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...ould-Read-This)

1 Cure IV when accounting for casting time (2.5 seconds) and casting/JA delay (2 seconds) will essentially cost you 2 attack rounds with Haste/Marches. If your PLD can swing for 150 damage or more you will generate more hate than a Cure IV for 450 cast on a 75 will do.

When you're with a group or just a WHM being able to heal yourself effectively as you keep calling it when you're the tank means nothing if it gets you less hate than your own DDing will get you because the more you cure yourself the sooner you're going to lose hate.

[Dale]

Please read this: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...ould-Read-This)

1 Cure IV when accounting for casting time (2.5 seconds) and casting/JA delay (2 seconds) will essentially cost you 2 attack rounds with Haste/Marches. If your PLD can swing for 150 damage or more you will generate more hate than a Cure IV for 450 cast on a 75 will do.

When you're with a group or just a WHM being able to heal yourself effectively as you keep calling it when you're the tank means nothing if it gets you less hate than your own DDing will get you because the more you cure yourself the sooner you're going to lose hate.

Zagen, even in this rare situation you are theorizing where a paladin has all these buffs and great DD gear to where he could possibly do so much damage in 2.5 seconds that the enmity it would create would be more than a Cure 4, you are forgetting one important point. It isn't just creating enmity, it is also restoring your HP - which is what keeps you alive

It's worth doing. Use your heals. Otherwise you are better off just being a full-blown damage dealer.

[Zagen]

Zagen, even in this rare situation you are theorizing where a paladin has all these buffs and great DD gear to where he could possibly do so much damage in 2.5 seconds that the enmity it would create would be more than a Cure 4, you are forgetting one important point. It isn't just creating enmity, it is also restoring your HP - which is what keeps you alive

It's worth doing. Use your heals. Otherwise you are better off just being a full-blown damage dealer.

I'm theorizing that a PLD would have 3 buffs from 2 jobs and technically it could be 1 player on BRD/WHM doing the buffs. My PLD on a good amount of NMs in Abyssea can hit 150+ on normal hits that doesn't count crits which run 200+ and my PLD still needs work wen it comes to DD setup. That's just with Atma/Cruor/Food I don't get where you feel there are tons of buffs that are rare.

This shouldn't be a rare situation unless you're small manning something at which point a MNK/NIN/THF/DNC is a better tank than PLD because the damage dealt is more hate gained/regained than your cure IV. Keep in mind the fewer buffs you have the more the game currently favors MNK/DNC, NIN/DNC, DNC/NIN, and even THF/NIN depending on the NM.

When many NMs have TP moves that can do 1-2k+ your Cure IV isn't going to keep you alive or help counteract the damage you just took. The hate you gain/regain from meleeing instead of locking yourself in a Cure IV will help make sure your hate is above a WHM who just cast Cure VI on you to recover the HP you lost.

I've tanked many NMs on PLD, MNK, WAR, DNC, and even a few on BLU. All in hopes to have fun doing it while learning how each job can best tank in general because I do find it fun. PLD spamming cures is a dead idea and has been for a long time.

Edit: Food for thought with a 224 delay weapon and 0 Haste which is well frankly unheard of, 224 / 60 = 3.74 seconds since your Cure IV takes 4.5 seconds it still breaks 2 attack cycles on a sword since you can't have 25% of an attack cycle.