Enmity

[Dale]

Obviously it's with Atma since we're inside Abyssea and NMs are scaled up. I can hit 5k Smites outside Abyssea too with AF3+2 body/Impetus =/. And yes, I hit elementals and avatars and such for about the same, if not more, damage. Those are a lot easier to hit since they typically just have -50% PDT instead of high defense.

How much do you hit them without Atma?

Or an elemental let's say not inside abyssea.

[Greatguardian]

How much do you hit them without Atma?

Or an elemental let's say not inside abyssea.

I wouldn't be hitting Chukwa without Atma. False comparison to the extreme.

Adamantoise without Atma? About the same as Chukwa with Atma.

Elementals outside Abyssea are even easier, as I already mentioned. They don't have huge def, their def sucks. They just have -50% PDT. It's fairly easy to hit 1k-3k WS on them, depending on self-buffs.

[Dale]

I wouldn't be hitting Chukwa without Atma. False comparison to the extreme.

.

Ok that would explain it then. I had a hard time understanding how you could be hitting that turtle so hard, but we did the fight without any atma. So it takes you from not hitting to 200 damage a hit. Lol nice, i really do need to get me some of that.

[Greatguardian]

Ok that would explain it then. I had a hard time understanding how you could be hitting that turtle so hard, but we did the fight without any atma. So it takes you from not hitting to 200 damage a hit. Lol nice, i really do need to get me some of that

... No. For like the 20th time in two days, you completely misunderstood what I wrote.

"I wouldn't be hitting Chukwa without Atma." means I would absolutely not be dumb enough to go into Abyssea and fight an NM without equipping my Atma first. Why would I waste my time with that? Trying to compare anything in Abyssea with or without Atma is just asinine, since anyone with an ounce of sense would be equipping their Atma if they have it.

[Dale]

... No. For like the 20th time in two days, you completely misunderstood what I wrote.

"I wouldn't be hitting Chukwa without Atma." means I would absolutely not be dumb enough to go into Abyssea and fight an NM without equipping my Atma first. Why would I waste my time with that? Trying to compare anything in Abyssea with or without Atma is just asinine, since anyone with an ounce of sense would be equipping their Atma if they have it.

It's not asinine lol Maybe they just started doing abyssea, and haven't had a chance to get atma yet.

[Greatguardian]

It's not asinine lol Maybe they just started doing abyssea, and haven't had a chance to get atma yet.

But sorry I misunderstood you

It doesn't bother me, but lack of Atmas doesn't speak for the job as a whole. A person in particular not having Atmas is fine. But that person wouldn't be a useful representative of damage on NMs either. There is the general case, and then the specific anecdotal case. For the purposes of job discussion, the general case is almost always a safer bet.

[Dale]

It doesn't bother me, but lack of Atmas doesn't speak for the job as a whole. A person in particular not having Atmas is fine. But that person wouldn't be a useful representative of damage on NMs either. There is the general case, and then the specific anecdotal case. For the purposes of job discussion, the general case is almost always a safer bet.

I'm not even sure what that meant. So i'll refrain from commenting at the risk of misunderstanding you again

But I will just say this. Even taking into account high end atma, the monk may be able to put out more damage than a Paladin - but he will never be able to heal himself effectively. And I do think this advantage is overlooked by too many paladins, and does contribute to this self-loathing many paladins seem to have about their job. It is a real and significant advantage they have over other tanks with higher offenses - and does help balance it out.