Enmity

[hiko]

fix CE/VE modifier for damage dealt, give PLD an enmity boost trait (doesn't count in enmity+ cap, also affect VE decay), a damage resistance trait (doesnt count in DT- cap)

[Greever]

funny thing is, pre lvl cap update, I could easily pull hate from any pld just melee'in with most of my DD's lol, not just mnk. A DD restraining itself has nothing to do with how a pld holds hate. Everyone caps out the same sooner or later.

TBH, pld isent a viable tank for anything that can be blink tanked. Other jobs just do it better. Blood tanking, other jobs just do it better lol. Holding hate, other jobs just do it better lol.

Raising enmity cap just for pld means u cap out and just stand there, u wont have much to do. Takes out a whole aspect of the game imo. pld caps hate, cure bomb pld, no risk of deathga/wipeage since no one can get hate off the pld. Would be nice to be able to go balls to the wall with certian jobs and not risk death. But it wont be the fix cause SE wont do it. Only way to make pld the #1 tank, is to make it a top teir DD in the game lol

Dont say...but outside of abyssea. Outside of abyssea, any DD is a better tank with /nin. If mob is squishy, pld cant cap hate. If mob is strong, DD's will cap hate just as fast as pld and be able to keep up because their DoT is not nearly as good as any DD. If ur not getting hit ur not curing, if ur curing the DD that pulled hate ur helping him survive as he continues to tank lol.

[Dale]

funny thing is, pre lvl cap update, I could easily pull hate from any pld just melee'in with most of my DD's lol, not just mnk. A DD restraining itself has nothing to do with how a pld holds hate. Everyone caps out the same sooner or later.

TBH, pld isent a viable tank for anything that can be blink tanked. Other jobs just do it better. Blood tanking, other jobs just do it better lol. Holding hate, other jobs just do it better lol.

Raising enmity cap just for pld means u cap out and just stand there, u wont have much to do. Takes out a whole aspect of the game imo. pld caps hate, cure bomb pld, no risk of deathga/wipeage since no one can get hate off the pld. Would be nice to be able to go balls to the wall with certian jobs and not risk death. But it wont be the fix cause SE wont do it. Only way to make pld the #1 tank, is to make it a top teir DD in the game lol

Dont say...but outside of abyssea. Outside of abyssea, any DD is a better tank with /nin. If mob is squishy, pld cant cap hate. If mob is strong, DD's will cap hate just as fast as pld and be able to keep up because their DoT is not nearly as good as any DD. If ur not getting hit ur not curing, if ur curing the DD that pulled hate ur helping him survive as he continues to tank lol.

A DD restraining itself deffinitely has an impact on how well a Paladin can hold hate, especially toward the beginning of a fight. So i just disagree with you there.

I also disagree with you that blink/tanks just totally overshadow paladins. On certain fights Blink Tanks are better, on others Paladins are better. Paladin is the master of heal/tanking, and i've already tanked several Nms in abyssea without any healing support and no atma, something a blink tank probably coudn't have pulled off, or if it did, would have been very dangerous. It would be stupid if we were the best tank on everything anyway. It just depends on the situation and what you are up against.

A lot of paladins seem to just want to be the number 1 best tank against everything. That's not going to happen, and to be honest, it shouldn't. Monks need their day in the sun too - and frankly I'm glad to see so many more viable tanks in abyssea. MMOs have a tendancy to become way too dd heavy and overly reliant on one or two tank jobs. IMHO any melee should be able to tank.

A Paladin can do so much more than tank anyway. He can DD well (I don't care what anyone says, they can). They can heal well, especially if they use a staff for spirit taker. They can even play an effective support role with flash and cover. There is nothing wrong with this job, and there is plenty of stuff you can do if you find yourself in a situation where you aren't the best tank present.

But all that being said, I'm not against seeing some buffs And i woudn't mind seeing Paladins get their own provoke or an upgrade to the flash spell, as long as it didn't allow them to keep the enemy's attention easily no matter what everyone else did.

[Zagen]

A DD restraining itself deffinitely has an impact on how well a Paladin can hold hate, especially toward the beginning of a fight. So i just disagree with you there.

You're missing what others are saying about MNK. There isn't a need for other DDs to restrain themselves when the MNK tank isn't restraining themselves because they will keep hate capped or recap it relatively quickly when compared to PLD.

Also why does everyone keep saying "PLD needs Provoke"? it was a crappy way to get hate before Abyssea it is still a crappy way to get hate now. I mean why was PLD/NIN the way to tank things if zerging was out of the question pre-Abyssea? Oh that's right shadow's lowered hate loss > provoke's hate gain.

[Greever]

A DD restraining itself deffinitely has an impact on how well a Paladin can hold hate, especially toward the beginning of a fight. So i just disagree with you there.

I also disagree with you that blink/tanks just totally overshadow paladins. On certain fights Blink Tanks are better, on others Paladins are better. Paladin is the master of heal/tanking, and i've already tanked several Nms in abyssea without any healing support and no atma, something a blink tank probably coudn't have pulled off, or if it did, would have been very dangerous. It would be stupid if we were the best tank on everything anyway. It just depends on the situation and what you are up against.

A lot of paladins seem to just want to be the number 1 best tank against everything. That's not going to happen, and to be honest, it shouldn't. Monks need their day in the sun too - and frankly I'm glad to see so many more viable tanks in abyssea. MMOs have a tendancy to become way too dd heavy and overly reliant on one or two tank jobs. IMHO any melee should be able to tank.

A Paladin can do so much more than tank anyway. He can DD well (I don't care what anyone says, they can). They can heal well, especially if they use a staff for spirit taker. They can even play an effective support role with flash and cover. There is nothing wrong with this job, and there is plenty of stuff you can do if you find yourself in a situation where you aren't the best tank present.

But all that being said, I'm not against seeing some buffs And i woudn't mind seeing Paladins get their own provoke or an upgrade to the flash spell, as long as it didn't allow them to keep the enemy's attention easily no matter what everyone else did.

Its hard to restrain urself from just melee'in lol.

There were very few mobs that could be blood tanked that mattered pre-abyssea. In those cases usually /rdm could be used. But also in those cases RDM and or Blu could be better at it. And back in the day if u were using a pld tank for anything that mattered, it was /nin. Can u name one relevent NM that would be blood tanked, and which subjob was prefered? in any of those cases if its /rdm, a main rdm or blu could do it better.

Dont get me wrong, I used to love pld. played it for a long time. But as time progressed, I found that pld dosent have a nich compared to other jobs. Basically any job can do what a pld can with the same buffs (marches/haste/pro/shell/healing support). Pld had and still has no singular place in the game since its designed role (pld was designed to tank) can be filled by so many other jobs. It kinda makes me think of it as the frankenstien monster of the game lol. Its not a mage and its not a DD, its somewhere inbetween (yes pld can DD...other jobs just do it better lol).

Yes soloing with pld is great, ive solo'd things at 75 with pld/dnc that i would only try on rdm (only reason i did it on pld is because of attonement to make the fight faster lol).

As it stands, plds new motto should be "...other jobs just do it better"

[Martel]

Can you name one relevant* NM that would be blood tanked, and which subjob was preferred? In any of those cases if its /rdm, a main rdm or blu could do it better.

*the above quote was edited for spelling and punctuation*

I used to do Yilbegan as PLD/BLU. Fun mob. Gave me mad parry skill ups. Now, I don't know that Blu or RDM couldn't tank him better. I've never seen either of them try it. But I do have to wonder how a RDM would even keep hate. All the hate spells got nerfed. I guess try some Chant spam? Yilbegan was really tough defensively at 75, but I guess we'd just have to see about now.

[Dale]

Its hard to restrain urself from just melee'in lol.

There were very few mobs that could be blood tanked that mattered pre-abyssea. In those cases usually /rdm could be used. But also in those cases RDM and or Blu could be better at it. And back in the day if u were using a pld tank for anything that mattered, it was /nin. Can u name one relevent NM that would be blood tanked, and which subjob was prefered? in any of those cases if its /rdm, a main rdm or blu could do it better.

Dont get me wrong, I used to love pld. played it for a long time. But as time progressed, I found that pld dosent have a nich compared to other jobs. Basically any job can do what a pld can with the same buffs (marches/haste/pro/shell/healing support). Pld had and still has no singular place in the game since its designed role (pld was designed to tank) can be filled by so many other jobs. It kinda makes me think of it as the frankenstien monster of the game lol. Its not a mage and its not a DD, its somewhere inbetween (yes pld can DD...other jobs just do it better lol).

Yes soloing with pld is great, ive solo'd things at 75 with pld/dnc that i would only try on rdm (only reason i did it on pld is because of attonement to make the fight faster lol).

As it stands, plds new motto should be "...other jobs just do it better"

I just haven't seen this in my experiences. Now things may change once strong atma is attained or something, but I would match up my tanking against any blink tank i've ever played with on the vast majority of things. I dont' think they overshadow me at all, and i'm more self-sufficient and require much less support - especially later on in the game when Paladin really starts to impress.

Now I will admit there are some bosses who have annoying moves that make blink tanking prefered - such as a NM with enpetrify or something like that. In a situation like that, yes - i will agree a blink tank is better. But from my own experiences, I compete just fine as a viable tank and believe paladins do have the edge against most things. With the addition of phalanx alone this job has easily grown 3 times stronger than it ever was, and that's not even counting the numerous other buffs they have gotten.

Also, a lot of people on this forum underestimate the amount of enmity heals create. Cure 4 spam makes a lot more enmity than most dd's are capable of, especially if you team that up with flash and some enmity gear. Paladins are hate mongers - and I just don't see why so many on this forum act like Paladins are at the bottom of the tanking pool. I just haven't see this, and I'm more than satisified with my paladin's performance. It is the best its' been since I have started playing this game.

I"d love to agree with my fellow paladins and say we desperately need huge buffs. But if I did would be for selfish dishonest reasons. I really do feel this job is pretty incredible right now, and I haven't even started getting the powerful atma yet.