Real PvP can we have it PLEASE S.E

[saevel]

The only reason I even have a glimmer of hope that there could be an update for PvP is because they accounced something about Pankration. Ballista has been around much longer than Pankration, and has seen far more attention than Pankration ever did.

Ok I'll meet you with whatever job combo you bring

And proceed to destroy you on RDM/BLM. (BLU and PLD are also good)

The jobs in this game are not balanced around PvP, certain jobs have a ridiculous advantage, so much that SE had to create NM's that are immune to that jobs abilities. A RDM/BLM would solo any player the same way they solo'd all the old NM's and HNMs, before SE made everything immune to grav / bind / silence / para. It would be a boring long 15+ min fight, but the results are inevitable, unless the RDM in question was a noob and tried to melee you.

Then you have BLU's, who can run how to someone and kill them in seconds while keeping them stun locked the entire fight. Between HB and SL a BLU can effectively stun lock anything, then just use high damage spells in between with Disseverment being the first one out the gate (18hp/tick poison says hi). With Q.Cont, Q.Strike, A.Spikes and even G.Rush your pretty much going to die without ever using a single ability.

And finally the most hilarious, the PLD. I've personally witnessed a VS MNK try to one on one an Aegis PLD (not even brOchain). The MNK kept losing over and over again. The last fight the PLD disengaged and just stood there for 5 min letting the MNK beat on him, just to prove the point. The only thing's that can kill a PLD are a zerging BLU or a kiting RDM, and even then it's gonna be a ridiculously long fight.

To fix this, SE would need to nerf RDM, BLU, PLD into the ground which would make them useless in PvP content (hero to zero status). Not much they can do really.

[Liir]

The games were designed to be team events. Thereby making teamwork a significant factor in playing. It doesn't particularly matter that a 1 vs 1 scenario is unbalanced.

[saevel]

The games were designed to be team events. Thereby making teamwork a significant factor in playing. It doesn't particularly matter that a 1 vs 1 scenario is unbalanced.

Except those jobs I mentioned above would decimate a team of two to three members.

RDM/BLM and BLU both have aoe sleepga. RDM particularly can CC multiple entities.

So take any three members you want, and put them against a PT of RDM + PLD + BLU and absolutely nothing could win.

[Rohelius]

You say it like AoE sleepga >All.... Poison pots anyone? lol rdm-pld-blu are good strong 1v1 but in team battles good strategy beats anything, this is after all Final Fantasy.

[Liir]

Except those jobs I mentioned above would decimate a team of two to three members.

RDM/BLM and BLU both have aoe sleepga. RDM particularly can CC multiple entities.

So take any three members you want, and put them against a PT of RDM + PLD + BLU and absolutely nothing could win.

So? Ballista already has measures in place to reduce the effects of sleep and other enfeebling spells. And at this stage of the game, it won't be hard to get any particular jobs on one's team anyway. Again though, this point doesn't even matter...as what Rohelius says is exactly the point:

in team battles good strategy beats anything

This is what true Ballista followers love about the PvP content in FFXI. We could care less about what happens in 1 vs 1 scenarios.

I personally am not advocating a sort of 1 vs 1 WoW type design of PvP. I'm simply asking for even a modest update to Ballista/Brenner/Diorama to bring it up to speed with current content. There are people who very much enjoy the team-based PvP that these events offer.

[saevel]

You say it like AoE sleepga >All.... Poison pots anyone? lol rdm-pld-blu are good strong 1v1 but in team battles good strategy beats anything, this is after all Final Fantasy.

I understand your thinking that sleepga is used to sleep people, it's not.

Sleepga is used because not only does it wipe shadows, but it also cause's the sleep status effect. Even with a DoT on it will take one game tick to wake up, meaning that for approx 3s your standing there slept. This gives the RDM time to apply silence / paralyze to block reapplication of utsusemi and to force you to go onto the defense. After you wake up the RDM's next move will be Sleep 1, followed by bind or grav. Then it turns into a slow drawn out kiting match where the RDM is keeping you debuffed (silence / para / slow / poison II) and leeching your HP away with Drain / Aspir. Eventually you will die, it's only a matter of time. Sab Poison II is 20hp/tick, followed by Bio II for 5~6 and three of the ele debuffs for 5~6 each. That much -HP/tick is going to kill even the Aegis PLD tank from earlier, the one that sat there and had a HF VS MNK beat on him for five min while disengaged.

RDM/BLM is the cheapest pvp combo in the game, the RDM job itself was so bad that SE had to make nearly every NM created in the last few years immune to all their abilities.

When your talking "team work" you can spout out about strategy all you want. Ultimately it'll be three vs three, meaning no matter how you stack one team to kill a single RDM, the RDM/BLM's team will have two more people. Imagine that monstrously annoying debuff from above, but coupled with a BLU running up and killing you in under 10s while keeping you stunned.

BLU looks like,
A.Claws (remove shadows)
Head Butt
Disseverment (high damage, 18hp/tick poison)
CA, Efflux Q.Continum
Sudden Lunge
A.Spikes

And if for some reason your ~still~ alive at this point, finish with Quadra Strike and possibly a Goblin Rush.

Heck RDM/BLM + BLU x 2, the BLU's zerg down two other team members, the RDM kites the last until the BLU's are finished. No matter how you shuffle it around, RDM BLU and PLD are so incredibly powerful vs squishy things (read: players) that they'll always win.

Wait .. you think it's unfair that the BLU destroyed your WHM before bothering with the MNK or SAM on your team? You think it's not right that the RDM kept your two heavy hitters enfeebled into oblivion while the BLU's worked over your healer, then moved onto each of them in turn. That is how PvP goes, the weakest members will always be picked off first.

[Urteil]

I understand your thinking that sleepga is used to sleep people, it's not.

Sleepga is used because not only does it wipe shadows, but it also cause's the sleep status effect. Even with a DoT on it will take one game tick to wake up, meaning that for approx 3s your standing there slept. This gives the RDM time to apply silence / paralyze to block reapplication of utsusemi and to force you to go onto the defense. After you wake up the RDM's next move will be Sleep 1, followed by bind or grav. Then it turns into a slow drawn out kiting match where the RDM is keeping you debuffed (silence / para / slow / poison II) and leeching your HP away with Drain / Aspir. Eventually you will die, it's only a matter of time. Sab Poison II is 20hp/tick, followed by Bio II for 5~6 and three of the ele debuffs for 5~6 each. That much -HP/tick is going to kill even the Aegis PLD tank from earlier, the one that sat there and had a HF VS MNK beat on him for five min while disengaged.

RDM/BLM is the cheapest pvp combo in the game, the RDM job itself was so bad that SE had to make nearly every NM created in the last few years immune to all their abilities.

When your talking "team work" you can spout out about strategy all you want. Ultimately it'll be three vs three, meaning no matter how you stack one team to kill a single RDM, the RDM/BLM's team will have two more people. Imagine that monstrously annoying debuff from above, but coupled with a BLU running up and killing you in under 10s while keeping you stunned.

BLU looks like,
A.Claws (remove shadows)
Head Butt
Disseverment (high damage, 18hp/tick poison)
CA, Efflux Q.Continum
Sudden Lunge
A.Spikes

And if for some reason your ~still~ alive at this point, finish with Quadra Strike and possibly a Goblin Rush.

Heck RDM/BLM + BLU x 2, the BLU's zerg down two other team members, the RDM kites the last until the BLU's are finished. No matter how you shuffle it around, RDM BLU and PLD are so incredibly powerful vs squishy things (read: players) that they'll always win.

Wait .. you think it's unfair that the BLU destroyed your WHM before bothering with the MNK or SAM on your team? You think it's not right that the RDM kept your two heavy hitters enfeebled into oblivion while the BLU's worked over your healer, then moved onto each of them in turn. That is how PvP goes, the weakest members will always be picked off first.

I care about 1v1 because a person who can stand against all is much better on a team than someone who can hardly stand on their own two feet. Teams are often used to hide your shortcomings and take place in victories that weren't really yours.

That being said, I am very good on a team, and I enjoy team Ballista. However quite frankly most of you including the guy I quote have no idea what you are talking about.


The fact that you'd sub BLM on RDM means that you're terrible, this is the problem with amateurs go around spouting opinions that cloud everyone else's judgement, irresponsible.

Your ideas around BLU revolve around physical spells which have short casting range and can easily be avoided by movement.

What kind of shit BLU doesn't use CC spells and expect someone to stand still near them, where are the magical blue spells. You didn't even mention Absolute Terror which is the REAL broken thing about BLU. The reason why the perception of "PvP isn't balanced" isn't because of the basic problems that come into every MMORPG, its because people like you come around and spout torrents of feces that people believe. Honestly there is pretty good balance, where many jobs considered to only "support" stand a hell of a chance against more "traditional" jobs and through proper gear choices you can take enfeebling power away from jobs that rely on it.

Get resistance gear, explore the options like CHR meva weapons vs enfeebling happy targets, or Eva swords for martial jobs, get outside of the box.


/SCH makes Sleepga worthless you really should be using break.

Are you living in 2007? And even then your strategy is pure penis.

What kind of piss WHM are you talking about? WHM can easily hit 50% pdt self haste buff against all debuffs and have decent WS with Flash Nova (unavoidable, magic damage they can rotate with flash.)

Bard is crazy with Duradabla with empyrean/mandau. They can hit 50% pdt, debuff you into oblivion and rotate dispels rendering buffs worthless, NEARLY IMMUNE TO SILENCE without gear, and on top of that they have access to AoE/ Single target light sleep and Dark sleep if they sub scholar. Oh and you can't interrupt their spells unless you time stun/whatever perfectly because of the bar finishes and they are un-stunned it fires anyway.

Bard can rotate 3 powerful songs to cater itself to any target

Transfer to Phoenix and if you can beat my Dark Knight I'll give you 41 100 Byne Bills, let's record it.
I bet you don't even have a Flawless ribbon or augmented Vunkerl Islet rings, and from what it sounds like you don't know the value of -DT gear.

Mana wall + -DT gear on a BLM? Get out of here.

You sir need to sit down, or transfer and fight me in about 25 minutes.
I'll bend you over 1v1., even a COR/SCH would just blow through this nonsense. Shit.

Bring: BLU/SCH RDM/BLM RDM/SCH PLD or whatever
And I hope you have a Tizona, Aegis + Excal/Burtgang or something fabulous.

[Snowmoofin]

I barely pvp and I can tell you Saevel that is an over simplistic view of pvp so much can easily can wrong in your battle plan there, break, sleep, getting your mp aspired away, etc. also why use asuran claws, there are cheaper faster spells to do the same job like delta thrust which comes with a handy plague. BLUs are a powerful job don't get me wrong but any good pvper will know blus weakness is range, its very easy to run out of range of most of our spells or to just aspir our limited mp pool away. Even the one "broken spell" we have in pvp absolute terror is easy to just run from.

Not only that but you neglected water bomb which is a solid silence spell that does a bit of knowledge and decent range. And you didn't mention pinecone bomb which gives you times to set up aa spell or give time to put up occultation or barrier tusk or cocoon.

[Zaknafein]

Did some Brenner last night with LSmates one of which went rdm. Sure while Rdm is beastly in PvP it is hardly unbeatable, especially as was mentioned previously. "Teamwork." Although I suppose it is too much of a stretch to expect people to work together in PvP when they are clamoring to do everything else in a MMO by themselves with their 3 mules. Well news flash... that sort of playstyle isn't going to help you in PvP.

Anyways we had a blast last night. Nothing in FFXI will ever give you the rush you feel when facing another player(s). It almost feels like a different game, because your strategies, and approach are so different from the mindless zerging/procing of normal PvE. It is a fantastic way to get to know people, and really gives the game experience a new leash on life for players bored to tears with repetitive collection of magian blah blah blah.

If you don't like PvP fine. Congratulations even. The fact is though if it was given some attention, and revamped to be more accessible with less hassle people would do it more often. W/e resources spent on it pay dividends, because it is the epitome of "reusable content" a.k.a. MMO gold.

No matter how many times you have PvP'd when you face someone using a different strategy or job combo it is unlike previous experiences.

[Urteil]

I thought Lakshmi was known for its PvP.

It could be quite possible that Saveal Saveeal whatever, is the worst PvP'er/Player on the planet.

I'm half expecting to hear shit like "haste takes time to proc" or "double attack gear is better than haste before haste cap" or "fSTR DON'T MEAN SHIT."


I keep re-reading these posts trying to see if I'm misunderstanding them, then I saw the impossible folks, something I thought only existed in the fevered dreams of gnomish mad-men.

Somebody actually wasting Saboteur on Poison. Not paralyze, silence. Poison:

A Sab Poison II is 20hp/tick, followed by Bio II for 5~6 and three of the ele debuffs for 5~6 each. That much -HP/tick is going to kill even the Aegis PLD tank from earlier, the one that sat there and had a HF VS MNK beat on him for five min while disengaged.