SMN adjustments....seriously?

[Dallas]

So that I don't have to explain it later...

I've quickly established that SMN is not the worst mage at anything by comparing them to a job that is also not the worst at that category. Out of five jobs, SMN is no worse than 3rd in every category. I listed two that SMN is best.

[Babekeke]

More damage than an Almace RDM? I'm not convinced....

[Fyreus]

More damage than an Almace RDM? I'm not convinced....

I would imagine that person might go down rather quickly on stuff that mattered xD

*page 11~

What some people also forget about smn's use is that it's valuable in a melee group (I HATE when people throw my smn in a magic group.. FFS ask me first) as there are mobs you don't want to get hit when your pants.. or fanatics falls. In my vwnm cycles i keep armor/ward/haste/enfire/attack+/BP and i toss ifrit in there for that 24% or so extra double attack.

Is it useless? No. Not really. He sits there minding his own business and i toss out heals here and there and 5 other guys get another hit in here and there and probably TP more. You'd need rdm/sch + cor/brd to replace me tbh :/ Another use is in a magic attack party where i'm able to keep up buffs/stats/absorb stats/refresh and so on.

The biggest problem with smn if anything is that some buffs are outdated and people don't understand that summoner is a buffer that can damage so they toss them in a pt with a rdm/whm/brd/blm/???/you and wonder why you are just BPing and sitting on your hands. There's nothing to do ffs. I think we should educate people :/

[Neisan_Quetz]

I don't think he could outdamage nuking Rdm.

I also can't remember the last time people actually cared about hate (ignoring WoE)... Or Brd Healing, are you serious? I mean, aside from both capping cure potency, Smn's advantage is wasting wards on healing, which is going to cut into 'more buffs than a whm' without a really effective shell, worse regens /phalanx than a Rdm (not that people rely on them much; if you bring up favor, you've already lost your more damage argument), and once again have to use wards for native enfeebles, anything else is half strength aside from Dia line which is same tier as whm.

EDIT: Wait wait wait, are you trying to compare Smn's damage/support/healing to the other mages/support, neglect Sch/Blu/Dnc/Cor, and then call yourself 3rd? I don't even... In terms of magical damage, I've yet to see Smn do more damage than Wildfire Cor. In terms of physical, behind pretty much all of them bar Blm. Healing is no better than 4th, and will probably drop to 5th after update.

[Karbuncle]

I don't think he could outdamage nuking Rdm.

A Melee RDM could out-DD a nuking RDM >_>. or was that the point you were trying to make? Like saying "He couldn't out-DD a nuking RDM, let alone an actual Almace RDM". type deal?

[Neisan_Quetz]

Depends what you're fighting, since obviously on harder targets melee damage drops off. Neither situation favors Smn imo until you're talking about hateless damage, which... isn't an issue in many events.

[Karbuncle]

Depends what you're fighting, since obviously on harder targets melee damage drops off. Neither situation favors Smn imo until you're talking about hateless damage, which... isn't an issue in many events.

IDK, With the Introduction of Shattersoul, I don't think SMN DD will fall so far behind RDM in nuking or what have you. Its a pretty good WS. Especially with a Hverg, Imagine so in Voidwatch, Dusty Wings rain from the sky, Can keep up 300%TP Aftermath and Stalwarts/etc for Shattersoul.

SMN suffers from lack of Attack above all else, Even in the TP Set above they're far behind other DD in terms of Attack/Acc. Voidwatch makes up for that with Stalwarts, Abyssea obviously with Atma, but on content outside of that... yah.

Still, Voidwatch is the only place you'd really bring a SMN realistically, because of procs. (outside of PD).

This topic makes me head spins because of all the uncertainty, I should get a 99 Hverg just to Melee in Voidwatch and see if i can piss people off for Pars data >_>

[Neisan_Quetz]

It's really good for a staff WS, but... that doesn't really make it that good. It's still used on the worst melee job in the game next to Blm, and has a pretty bad mod for a physical WS. Smn is as you said trailing in attack/DA/etc., Even for VW I wouldn't expect much.

And yes it still can only work in either abyss and maybe VW, though both would be hard pressed to be meleeing in VW, and mp isn't an issue in either.

[Karbuncle]

Only reason they don't generally melee in VW or Abyssea is because most people, as explained in my first post, are pretty much stuck in the Stupid ages of FFXI. VW/Aby is really the only place where SMN melee would be less-useless, because of the limitless MP and massive bonuses to SMN's natural weakness. it stops most smns because...

1) FFXI Stone-age monkeys might yell at them not to melee and refuse to give a valid excuse. (because there is none)
2) Most SMNs dont own a melee set because its not worthwhile for most events.

Theres a lot stopping it, But in this day, theres no valid reason not too in Events like VW and Abys, Hell, even Dynamis if you're there (like for Relic+2 trials).

As far as Shattersoul goes, 3.75fTP across the 3 hits and 100%INT Mod, A lot of SMN Gear is designed around INT. You can use High STR rings/Earrings, Belt, and Neck, And stock your Visible gear in INT. This will pack on the STR, and make up for their low STR.. This is a WS Set i had thought up for Shattersoul:

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/250600

Will be pretty good. I think you could get some impressive numbers with the above.

[Sargent]

2) Most SMNs dont own a melee set because its not worthwhile for most events.

Might wanna add, with a full Idle set, Perp- set, full Summoning skill set, BP delay set, full Atk/MAB set, fast cast set, there's not much room for a melee set. I would love to carry one around for when I am needed to melee (/point WARs in VW who won't unequip Ukon to proc), but I'm currently 76/80 with just gear, Echos and Linkshell. I just hadta remove my most of my cure potency set to make room for additions to my summoner gear (Celeano/Bhishani finally put out), and it looks like my Fast Cast set is next.