Thieves and Voidwatch

[Nynja]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...ter#post141693

A minor full-spectrum alignment bonus based upon the player's Treasure Hunter effect level will now be granted upon defeating an enemy.

This was a nice minor attempt at getting thieves some inclusion in Voidwatch, since:
-thf has no JA procs
-their lack of weapon utility basically says "daggers only"..of which dnc can use Dancing Edge and Shark Bite, while contributing to JA procs they do have
-that one overpowering trait they have, Treasure Hunter, which has been stated to be such a powerful job trait that thief is automatically doomed to be a mid tier job (sorry Camate, I understand you're a messenger, not attacking you), is bloody useless in Voidwatch.

But whys it useless, "we made it so TH raises lights"...it was short sighted.

Using red/blue light as my example because thats the light everyones whos spammed voidwatch 300 times over for cares about:
Soft cap of 350%: this is obtained by procs and Synchronic Blitz.
Hard cap of 500%: This is reached by one of the following two methods:
1-trading 3 of the relevant cells to the Planar Rift prior to the fight to receive a 150% bonus
2-TH effect
Final Cap of 525%: Having Periapt of Glory/Concentration

So whats the problem with the TH effect? If you've traded in 3 cells, it becomes annulled automatically, and thief is still useless in voidwatch. If you ask "what if someone doesnt trade cells"...I'll just ask why they're spamming *insert high tier highly repeated NM* over and over if theyre not trading cells.


Since TH is basically the reason why thieves wont get anything that will bump them up from mid-tier job (not even native subtle blow...meanwhile the "mirror job" dnc has 3/5 eva traits, 3/5 acc traits, 3/4 crit bonus traits, 2 skillchain bonus traits, conserve TP, and 1 higher dual wield trait...oh and JA procs for voidwatch inclusion), how about making it useful for voidwatch. As I've shown above, the TH effect on the lights was good, but its fallen short since you can use cells to automatically attain the hard cap bonus. Perhaps placing the TH effect on the overall spectrum after the hard cap, shared with the periapts, would be better served?

The change wouldnt be game breaking:
current scenario with capped red/blue + TH7 + periapt + cells = 525
proposed changed with capped red/blue + TH7 + periapt + cells = 560

[Nynja]

Maybe I should delete the thread, I just had a gut feeling this will be percieved as "reduce cell offerings to two and let TH give remainder of lights for hard cap"...

[Urteil]

Thief needs to be something other than a TH pony.


Give the job trickster bolts: dispel, mdef down, acc down, atk down, silence, paralyze etc.
Or other physical ways to apply a select choice of debuffs, something, anything other than TH.

Feint is a good start, maybe make abilities that can lower attack, accuracy, or defense drastically for strategic periods of time. Don't be dicks and allow them to stack with other forms (angon etc.)


Enhance the range on their hate-stealing abilities because the range is small and stupid.

Its really a shame they gave a WoW combo-point system to DNC it should have been for Thief.
And uncap evasion at 80% even if just for them.

Keep adding stuff to Thief like Bully because that was a great idea and gave the job a neat creative function.

The job should be more than a prayer to the Random Number Gods.

[Kimble]

Thief needs to be something other than a TH pony.


Give the job trickster bolts: dispel, mdef down, acc down, atk down, silence, paralyze etc.
Or other physical ways to apply a select choice of debuffs, something, anything other than TH.

Feint is a good start, maybe make abilities that can lower attack, accuracy, or defense drastically for strategic periods of time. Don't be dicks and allow them to stack with other forms (angon etc.)


Enhance the range on their hate-stealing abilities because the range is small and stupid.

Its really a shame they gave a WoW combo-point system to DNC it should have been for Thief.
And uncap evasion at 80% even if just for them.

Keep adding stuff to Thief like Bully because that was a great idea and gave the job a neat creative function.

The job should be more than a prayer to the Random Number Gods.

I feel like you totally missed the point as none of what you said would exactly make THF useful for Voidwatch.

[Nynja]

Yeah...nothing in here is a "wah thief sucks" thread, I'm fine with it as is. My not-so-subtle hits towards dnc were just to show just how useless is thief in voidwatch (dnc can do what thf brings to the table, and then its own goodies) and SE's previous attempt, while on the right track, practically does nothing based on the current system.

As said, would it be so game breaking to allow thief to do what its supposed to do? Considering it has been stated that thf doesnt need anymore because TH is such a powerful trait, yet this so powerful trait is completely annuled.

[Karbuncle]

Dear Thieves,

No. Because Aura Steal is too powerful., and because you can upgrade TH Through melee, and if we did this, We'd have to make it so TH Was less effective on other mobs in the game for Balance.

Signed,
Square Enix.

Is the only answer you'll ever get when asking for a THF buff. I'm still happy with Bully, But asking for anything else is going to make us angrier when they come up with an even more retarded reason why they don't want to buff it.

I like Nynja's idea though. I always thought it was rather dumb TH Just adds to the hard cap rather than breaking it, since anyone serious about farming an Item has the cells they need, and TH Adding such a piddly ass bonus to lights (Even the best Known TH i can recall, 12, is still under 30% of what just 1 single cell offers), It'd be dumb to rely on it.

At this time, The only use i see for it is increasing your Exp/Cruor by about 300 per fight....

So, In Closing, I like Nynja's idea, and i highly anticipate the reason they tell us no.

[Nala]

Blah its late but i'll try to keep it coherent.

I've basically said as much before in regards to how TH and VW relate and how they should function, there is no reason that our "all powerful" th should count towards the cap, honestly its a freaking bull$#%! and complete cop out to say we don't deserve subtle blow due to TH. who knows being able to reach 560+ red might actually help peeps from going 0/300 on VW drops (just gave them the perfect reason not to go through with this oh well im leaving it there)

Aura steal/steal/despoil/mug, considering the whole 12 cool down limit per job and the fact that there isnt anything worth while that has been added since abyssea to use aforementioned on why not drop these so we can split accomplished and collaborator, hmm... oh well tangent started, considering the fact that you'd be able to steal hate more often, perhaps modify TA so that it transfers some of the THF's total emity to TA partner, not that it'd make a huge diff in capped emity situation anyways.

While were on the topic, why not just drop hide too, 5 minutes to frontal sneak attack a mob to the face or escape aggro, honestly flee does more for you in the escape department, though i dont really have any suggestions on what would be a good replacement JA in this case. unless it modified the effects, emity douse has you shed hate from a specific mob but instead how about hide clears thief off the hate list for all mobs? though probably would be difficult to program? either way it would clean TH off mobs too so you'd need a second thief to hold TH level if you went that route, anyways i'm going to go to bed now x.x

[Nynja]

once again, this isnt about how thief is weak, how its been dealt injustices, etc etc...please dont derail it to anything like that, go to the thief boards and do that. I'm just trying to point out how SE's attempt to provide thief for some inclusion for voidwatch is next to useless.

[Kitkat]

Have to agree with Nynja on this. Currently my thf serves primarily only a small, and "can do without," function. That is to steal enmity off 1 of the 2 (sometimes 3) tank entities at pil and a few other vwnm when it is needed or if hate resets occur. Other than this my thf doesn't bring much to the table over any other job due to the scope of triggers they can do (that being dagger, which you can bring a dnc for and get ja triggers on top of it). Would just be nice to feel a little more useful when I actually do go on thf to VWNM.

[Ophannus]

Just another DD I guess. Feint is nice though for some NMs.