Practical Soultions to Issues with RDM.

[Feliciaa]

It would. You could legitimately classify RDM as a support mage because they would have at least 1 spell for mages and 1 spell for melee that they could call their own. Would that be any different than what a COR can do? NO. But so long as they both stacked, you could invite both.

I personally think we should be getting Sphere's so that you stand by which ever group you need to be affecting. You want to give front line jobs Temper? You have to be there. You want to give back line jobs Refresh II? Sit your butt down and put your sword away. Haste, Phalanx, Bar, and Enspells working like this would have been optimal as well, but we have already gotten the FU RDM from SE. Just relish how much they care about RDM.....NONE.

I think you 2 are on the same side so lets focus on the issues with RDM and not each other...

I agree that making Temper a AoE spell that would stack with COR could add a lot of appeal to invite a RDM.

However, I disagree with adding sphere effects to RDM. I only say this because I would rather see AoE spells for RDM so it can support both DD and mages and be a support job on the same level as COR,BRD and SMN instead of being forced to pick whether to support DD or mages.

[Crimson_Slasher]

Just because they want it to stay single target doesnt mean thats whats best for redmage. All i have to say on the matter of lacking area buffs.

[Mageoholic]

We don't need AoE's or gimmicks like sphere spells, we need to have all of our enfeebles and buffs to be useful to the party.That is what we need. If in the future it is deemed casting load is restricting our ability to perform our secondary skills then we discuss ways to make these more time efficient, be it a RDM buff that allows for aoeing, allowing them to work with SCH's accession or making them AoE in general.

The most important thing is to make our primary skills work to better the group, currently our enfeebling and enhancing skillset does not allow to do this or is no better than jobs with similar spells or that use rdm as a sub job.

One thing at a time.

[Crimson_Slasher]

While id like either, id strongly prefer to cut out the middle man. Sure we arent in much position to make demands, but id rather not be put in a position where we get a very small change where later we will once again be back here demanding AOE spells, when we could just try to get them now. Im not saying all our buffs, im not saying AOE temper, or AOE stoneskin, and while gain spells are rather powerful, barspells are a survival tool that would be nice to gain and not be shackled to /whm or use an already valuable stratagem on. One thing at a time is a reasonable guideline, but we need something big, and again, cycles suck, so lets get away from that!

[Mageoholic]

What is big is having our spells actually work, and being able to cast them in the first place.

[Seriha]

AoE/Sphere or GTFO on applying our current buffs to others. Otherwise, aside from sapping even more fun out of the job with the cycle blah, you'll wind up having to swap enhancing gear around for the Emp+2 set, making things like our Barspells or Gains even weaker than the WHM counterparts if you want be casting them less often. Not gonna fall for the trap of "Do it now and we'll worry about the consequences later!" line, either.

[Greatguardian]

No one gives a shit about RDM's third-rate Barspells, and unless you think RDM's going to be a main healer again no one gives a shit about their Gain spells either.

It's Temper that people would want cycled, so cry moar about how hard that is.

[ManaKing]

I don't see people asking white mages to whip out their mauls just because Afflatus Misery and Cura are designed around being in melee range.

It's more like those spells and abilities are generally useless because they'd require a mage to be in melee range.

Otherwise, you missed the sarcasm. That or uMad to the nth degree. Take a few dozen chill pills and stop posting for a week or something.

I guess you missed the part were I'm allowed to have an opinion of dissatisfaction about the current implementation and future prospects of my job that I play. I guess I should post something stupid like, 'come at me bro' or some other internet trash to make you happy GG. I understand you like getting attention by intentionally disagreeing with people and trying to make be rude to them after they have agreed with you, but honestly I don't really care about your dissonance. Just stick to actually discussing RDM and stop making all the side trips to insulting people. It's just not necessary.

One thing at a time.

Absolutely not. It takes years for anything to be updated. We need it as quickly as possible and as much at a time as we can get. Stop being complacent. That's how SE can hand us trash like Break and Gravity 2 and expect everything to be OK.

Gains and Boosts don't stack? Oh that's ok SE you basically just dicked us over in a party setting, but it's cool. I mean we have such an overwhelming party presence already to fall back on from all the half asses attempts SE has made at giving RDM a growth chart from 76>99.

What is big is having our spells actually work, and being able to cast them in the first place.

No see that is what was already needed. They failed at implementing it and we've gotten to suffer for it. Stop thinking that you are being unreasonable for asking your job to work.

No one gives a shit about RDM's third-rate Barspells, and unless you think RDM's going to be a main healer again no one gives a shit about their Gain spells either.

It's Temper that people would want cycled, so cry moar about how hard that is.

Agrees with GG. There was nothing generous about RDM not being able to share Temper. It effectively locked us out of party play. No one cares about anything but the best because they only plan around best case scenarios when they put together parties. They aren't voluntarily going to look for a 2nd rate version of something they can get a 1st rate version of. That would just be bad planning.

Our bar spells are trash compared to what a WHM can qualitatively and quantitatively do with their versions of the spells. Unless Gain and Boost Spells are going to stack, no one is going to care either. The point where Temper becomes desirable is the point where it can be placed on others and it stacks other all other versions of it. If COR and RDM give you even more Double Attack than either separately, then you can plan around amazingly broken amounts of DA. If not, then you invite the COR and you invite the RDM only when you can't find a COR.

As it stands, RDM is the Jack of Second Rate. Not even the King/Queen of it. We are grossly under-powered for party standards of desirability.

[Mageoholic]

Then bitch and moan to be a better healer, nuker, melee then see how far that goes and where you end up. Ill tell you right now no amount of buffing to healing nuking or melee is going to make RDM any more valued then WHM or SCH, or BLM or SCH, or WAR MNK DRG DRK SAM NIN THF DNC. The only place the job can be diverse is in the enfeebling and enhancing position, and the only way to make it diverse is by allowing its spells to work and to have potency influenced by skill on all spells.

[Feliciaa]

No one disagrees with what you said about spells working and skill playing a bigger part in potency Mageoholic. That is 100% how RDM should function. However, that's only a small part of a much bigger issue with RDM. If SE was to only fix skill and potency RDM still does not bring very much to a high level fight such as VW. Not when most support jobs also have access to some of the same spells, healing magic and lots of conserve MP tools.

With Enhancing magic we have to look at what RDM brings to the table VS. other support classes. Yes RDM can heal, haste, cast high level shell/protect, and Phalanx 2 but is this really worth a spot when you could get a WHM to pre-shell/protect and have a SMN,COR, or BRD not only support heal/DD but provide much better performance Enhancements?
As others have stated. No one is looking for every RDM spell to suddenly become AOE. But RDM is in serious need of some unique RDM only Support spells so people will actually want to spend a PT slot on one. This way RDM can quickly buff his/her PT but is not locked down into another mindless spell to cycle.

At the moment RDM has a lot of self-target spells which means absolutely nothing in a MMO that is solely based on team play.

Mageoholic, you are correct that skill is very important. However, the stuff others have mentioned about AOE buffs and RDM's general lack of unique spells is also correct. In my opinion both go hand in hand.