Practical Soultions to Issues with RDM.

[Crimson_Slasher]

Getting called out helps me learn new information that has changed or that i didnt know for sure. Getting called out and then treated like shit for it doesnt help me learn anything and just makes me lose faith in my peers on ffxi and the internet.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Should have abandoned hope a long time ago.

[Mageoholic]

I think the main problem with RDM as a job is that SE has no idea on what this job should be.

This is exactly the problem, and it stems in large part from the RDM community. Large in part to the fact that melee conversation eventually takes over every thread and delves into a no you can't yes I can pissing contest. (I am quite surprised this thread has managed to survive this long tbh) Our community lacks the ability to present a clear focus to the issues surrounding this job.

The issue I personally have and I think other RDM's should have is trying to ask for boosts in areas that are already clogged with jobs, namely melee and nuking. (SE has already stated that they are adjusting healing as a whole which while it does buff WHM, it will also give SCH and RDM that boost they need, if they do it properly).

This leaves Enfeebling and Enhancing, which really go hand in hand with each other, however both systems are broken currently. Enfeebling in general, and Enhancing with SE restricting our ability to buff.

This is why I made this thread because it is in my opinion the only place where RDM can truly be balanced in party play, and most importantly attain a party slot. By adjusting Enhancing and Enfeebling as suggested in the original post it puts RDM on a pedestal over WHM and BLM, (who are also on their own pedestals) and indirectly buffs SCH to move above these jobs in this regard as well. It also puts RDM on a pedestal over SCH, who in turn is better at healing and nuking.

Considering all of out abilities stack with other support it does not step on the toes of your COR's BRD's or DNC'
s, and to an extent SMN's (who have their own issues.)

As a community we have to get behind one solid idea and keep blasting SE with it, I have little faith in that occurring, and I am not saying my Idea is the one to go with. I just feel it is the best opportunity to see us wanted for group play again, because I am 99% sure we won't get that slot with better melee, nuking, or healing, and if we do get buffed to that point, you can bet your ass a shit storm will be brewing in the WHM, BLM, SCH, <insert other nuking class, healing class, melee class here> forums. Which will result in a nerf, or subsequent buffs to those classes that will put us back in the same spot.

A BRD or COR or DNC won't care if we can buff/debuff because our support spells stack with theirs, the only one who might take issue with it is SMN, but this adjustment I laid out doesn't really change the impact SMN already feels for the worse, SMN is in a shitty spot already and it won't change if RDM is more capable enhancer and debuffer since SMn doesn't stack currently anyway.

But ya, we need to give SE a clear idea of what we want, I feel making us the king of support mages is what we need.

[ManaKing]

You have a really valid point here that I did not think about. If the design team was to remove the self-target + no Accession restriction on RDM gain spells it would allow him/her a lot more options on how to buff a group vs. a WHM's Boost-spells. Overall, RDM gains a unique feature with out becoming a lesser version of a WHM.

Yeah too bad that isn't going to happen. A lot of what if and not a lot of actual substance. You guys just don't read the Dev posts or something?

You must not know what italics represent in lists, or have read anything I typed earlier. We are talking about what allowing our spells to work allows for please keep up.

Oh ok that makes everything more clear. You just don't want to look at what dev's are posting and only want to talk about what you think they should do. Excellent. So you just don't pay attention.

Having just read SE's recent announcements on PLD and DRK, it is pretty sad that they can't even stop by and say here is the direction we have in mind for RDM. Honestly updating Shield Bash and Weapon Bash was a priority? what with DNC having violent flourish on a short recast and BLU with their hand full of stuns already.

Would be nice to have some feedback SE. What is the jobs purpose, where do you see it going forward. 8 years of silence is pathetic.

See you are starting to get it. Most of us have been here for the last year. Lots of crickets. Not a lot of updates. Lots of in-fighting.

Should have abandoned hope a long time ago.

Love you <3

[Crimson_Slasher]

Well mage actually, a lot of people have gotten behind the "copy all active buffs on the rdm to a party member" idea, or have come to that conclusion on their own terms, that could be our driving force. It would force cycles, yet at the same time be less tedius because it would be 1 cycle that grants all the buffs, rather than cycling haste/temper/refresh/etc. It would also do away with the need to cast single aoe of each spell or single target versions, though it would be harder to offer specialized buff packages, when everyone gets regen II, refresh II, phalanx, stoneskin, aquaveil, a gainspell, temper, protect and shell (maybe) and enspell, haste, and possibly 2 barspells, its hard to complain. And if there was a buff that wasnt wanted (enspell?) They could remove it themselves.

I dunno who came up with it first, i know i was one of the earlier ones to suggest it back but someone likely beat me to it, but it seems like a lot of us like it. Maybe thats what we need to push for, and right now more than ever since theyre taking a look at each job and making changes.

[Mageoholic]

See you are starting to get it. Most of us have been here for the last year. Lots of crickets. Not a lot of updates. Lots of in-fighting.

Well I guess its a good thing Ive been dealing with it for 7 years then isn't it...

Well mage actually, a lot of people have gotten behind the "copy all active buffs on the rdm to a party member" idea, or have come to that conclusion on their own terms, that could be our driving force.

I don't like this idea because again it carries with it the limitations of not buffing others. Not everyone benefits from the same spells, and an ability like this would hardly be on a short timer (at best 10 minute minimum akin to BLU AoE JA). I am not opposed to the idea of being able to AoE buffs, but we have a few great "buffs" that are AoE in nature.

Dia III is AoE ATK + for anyone able to attack the mob
BIO III is AoE DEF + for anyone able to be attacked by the mob
Gravity is AoE ACC + for anyone able to attack the mob
Blind is AoE evasion + for anyone able to be attacked by the mob
Enpell II's is AoE Meva - (elemental dependant) for anyone casting on the mob
Death Blosom is AoE Meva - (all elements) for anyone casting on the mob

I like the premise of the idea, but I just can't see it being introduced functionally. Especially considering the amount of benefit we already give on the mob, not just to the party, or ally, but to anyone who can attack it. (again providing SE fixes enfeebling, and enhancing.)

I would like to see Haste and Refresh I (at least) AoE'd, simply because SCH now has access to those, and it would leave the choice of Refresh II to the RDM, and TBH some jobs just don't benefit from Refresh like others, and could live with a refresh 1. It would allow WHM to benefit as well, and if SE did allow RDM to cap haste higher than other jobs then it would give us even more reason to be invited.

The only buffs we cycle are haste and refresh with potentially gain and temper looking at 8 seconds per specific party member, or around 48 seconds (worst case assuming 4 buffs per person) every 5 minutes or so. With 6 debuffs you are looking at about a minute casting ever 5 minutes, leaving you 4 minutes to do other things such as melee, nuke, heal.

4 minutes is a lot of time.

[Crimson_Slasher]

Agreed but its still a widely supported idea, something already a lot have gotten behind, and if we make it clear how we need/want it (perhaps make it into a charge system or something?) then we can have a better management of it. And yeah not all jobs need refresh, but not all jobs need temper in the same situation, but a war would get both as would a whm, so its kinda win/win, with the only hitch being when it comes to the gains needing to be personalized, but in some instances, those can be changed between casts. And even if the recast was long, i dunno, maybe being able to supercharge a DD or tank throughout the battle would be pretty handy, maybe earn us a slot in tank parties in events. Just brainstorming.

[Seriha]

As long as this jazzed up idea of "Support Mage" involves no concept of melee integration, I will not be for it. Cry about derails, epeens, or how it always inevitably comes up, but when there is no incentive to be swinging with a party, the job is not matching its concept and can more easily be replaced by another job with their higher tiers on spells, AoEs, or spells/abilities RDM doesn't even get at all. Meanwhile, one should not be looking to BLUs as a sudden brick wall for RDM progression or even a RDM substitute. They're just different paths to the same goal in a combat caster like MNK and WAR are DDs of their own flavor.

[Mageoholic]

Personally ive never been a fan of AoE on RDM, if it is allowed with enhancing then why can we not do it with enfeebling, or nuking or healing.

I actually thought of a charge based system at work today based on enfeebling but talked myself out of it simply because we already have such a system in place currently that SE is restricting. Like I said above the only spells that would really benefit from AoE are haste and refresh. I mean cor and brd have these...

But they are also limited to the buffs they can apply, the short list of AoE buffs we have is already larger then a standard BRD or COR, adding even more on I think is to much (asking for accession is probably to much). COR and BRD (the other primary support jobs are limited in the buffs they can cast. Considering we already have more secondary tools then either job, and require less upkeep then BRD, and that our buffs are able to be cancelled should we not want them (expcept debuff buff's) I just don't think that the idea is practical. I think Accession is the answer and limited to spells a SCH has access to (Haste Refresh I).

I don't mean to sound discouraging or pig headish, but I just can not see a reason to argue for something that has limited use or is impractical. Especially in the current BALANCE craze. BRD's and COR's would not be happy with us supplying 4+ AoE buffs when they can only only do 4 and 2 (respectively).

[Mageoholic]

As long as this jazzed up idea of "Support Mage" involves no concept of melee integration, I will not be for it.

Then argue for melee improvements, and the join the list of SAM, WAR, MNK, DRG, DRK, THF, NIN, DNC, BST, PUP, RNG fighting for a party slot as a DD. Being a support mage opens up our access to secondary skills in the past this defaulted us to backline duties only, but RDM can easily cap haste, can cap ACC, can hit ATK levels similar to other one handers, has a much smaller casting load thanks to AFv3 and higher fast cast tier.

All of our secondary skill sets are supported by the support mage idea now, the most important aspect being, actually being invited to an event as a RDM. (and not just to proc bitch it.)

Being the best support mage id rather compete with a spot with nobody, and apply my secondary sklls (healing nuking melee) as I deem required from there.