Practical Soultions to Issues with RDM.

[Crimson_Slasher]

I agree partly too. Gain spells and bar spells targeted to party wouldnt help. Even getting boost spells and native aoe barspells wouldnt fix our lack of wanting in parties, but it would sure as hell do more and not force us to cycle them. If a Whm can aoe +25 potency boost spells, then why would us doing it one at a time be better when its the same mp cost? Even if we could deliver gain spells custom order to each party member, thats more downtime for the buff. Only thing we can offer is a little durration. Instead if we had boost spells, we could do that instead of the whm, letting them carry less gear, or waste less time reapplying them during the fight. Same with barspellras We can apply them during more hectic fights where they are essential. We can take a hit better than white mage usually, so why not have us put ourselves in danger for reapplying those spells quick when needed, while we still would have the ability to do our other duties. Less cycles, more buffs when needed, and a bit more utility for Redmage in party.

Im no fool though, that wouldnt cement our slot in a party either, but with hastes, and refreshes, and enfeebles, maaaaybe. Because while temper is cool, i dont think our 20% (or less) is gonna outmatch anyone else's equal or greater potency DA buff and im doubtful it would give us enough of a party presence either. Dont get me wrong, it would help but DA has a cap just as anything else does, but would 3 DDs at DA cap beat 4 DDs at high rate of DA? Too many variables unless that party wouldnt have a whm.

Still i dont think Temper is ENOUGH of a buff to warrant rdm's invite even if it were targetable. I mean im still running into players who skimmed the rdm forums or from hearsay think its still 5% DA.

Like Seriha says, and i agree, Aoe or go home. /endramblythoughts

[Greatguardian]

I'd like to see these imaginary people that cap Double attack rate with or without Temper.

I'd also be pissed if it was caster AoE because caster AoE is annoying and a good part of why Boost spells suck.

Party targetable with Accession access is vastly superior to caster AoE.

[Crimson_Slasher]

Assuming your double attack cap is 50%, corsair's roll grants 2%-24% of double attack (max with a warrior in the party who also natively have 10% double attack) putting any warriors in the party at base of 34% DA before any gear with a max roll. +5% from ravager pants +2 (which would be likely a TP build piece) Puts them at 39% already, Aethling + Brutal, and theyre at 47% And if theyre using a pole grip thats 49%. So anything else in their build with +DA (like ravager earing) would put them at 50% cap.

As for jobs without that option, lets look at SAM in the same party /war. Same base 34%, Aethling and brutal once again pushing them to 42% already. Dunno if zanshin stacks or is counted toward that cap, but that is there too. Lets not forget that there are very healthy amounts of DA gear sam can equip (Calmecac pants, Jingang boots, askar body, portus collar, etc) Which some of can be used while letting sam keep capped haste and push their DA numbers. Granted not all of these things will happen at once but they arent all that unrealistic really i dont think.

Edit:
And this is all outside of other factors like triple attack, and atma/atmacites because location was not specified.

Edit #2: Monk/war, also in same party, starting at 34%, add aethling brutal and epona's and you're at 45% Then depending on the rest of your build, if with blackbelt you can use calmecac pants or if no black belt you could possibly use twilight belt in waist (as some aby-burn monks as of the shinryu zerg) would put you at 47%. From there, Juogi/+1, or Ocelomeh/+1 or Toci adds even more, putting you anywhere from 49%+. Just because your main was set to monk.

Edit #3: A more realistic argument would be about allowing COR to use other rolls because the rdm is granting the DA buff, but i still dont know if a 3 DD party with a rdm/cor/whm would outdo a 4DD party with a whm and cor.

Edit #4: Posting quote so it cant be changed to try to add/omit conditions.

I'd like to see these imaginary people that cap Double attack rate with or without Temper.

I'd also be pissed if it was caster AoE because caster AoE is annoying and a good part of why Boost spells suck.

Party targetable with Accession access is vastly superior to caster AoE.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Double attack does not cap... The only known limit is the amount of DA you can actually get.

[saevel]

@CS,

That's all good in theory.

In actuality, 99% of the population wont' be getting COR rolls with a WAR in the party, nor fighting things that are 6 man onry. VWNM is alliance content, and the new Legion system will be multiple alliance content. People are having enough issues fill an alliance in voidwatch with all the different jobs, usually you end up leaving out one or two and just wing it. COR's just roll misers and tacticians, and not waste time on DA rolls.

In actuality, very few people will ever be anywhere near capping double attack. Caster centered Temper / Boost spells are ideal for a hybrid fighter mage as their the better suited to taking damage and the associated status ailments then your healers are.

[Haldarn]

How about a job ability called, say, "Mentor" that transfers all self-cast buffs onto another party member with their maximum duration, cooldown one minute?

That keeps the vision of RDM as a self-buffer intact, whilst still providing a unique buffing role in a party situation and not detracting from other mages' AOE buffs.

[Crimson_Slasher]

No known cap, and even if cors are there or not regularly, i took a quite realistic example to show that if the cap were 50% it would be quite reachable, Even without a warrior, 50% double attack is still reachable. I took the model is was presented (Cor + RDM + # of DDs, not to mention WARs are out in force as of late last i checked...) Not to mention in VW that party isnt that unrealistic either, though would be a bit silly in my opinion for the layout of one of your 3 parties.

[Doombringer]

also.. doesn't that whole argument rely on there being a double attack cap? i thought the consensus was that da prolly just caps at 100%.. at wich point it becomes redundant. just feels like you're taking a pretty big leap...

since it's not like haste where it gets exponentially better as you get more.. every 1% of da, is "just" 1%.


am i wrong? has there EVER been anything to suggest double attack rate caps at anything less than 100%?

[Greatguardian]

Double attack does not cap... The only known limit is the amount of DA you can actually get.

also.. doesn't that whole argument rely on there being a double attack cap? i thought the consensus was that da prolly just caps at 100%.. at wich point it becomes redundant. just feels like you're taking a pretty big leap...

since it's not like haste where it gets exponentially better as you get more.. every 1% of da, is "just" 1%.


am i wrong? has there EVER been anything to suggest double attack rate caps at anything less than 100%?

This is correct. I'd like to see where this "50% DA cap" is coming from, because no one else is in on it.

As for Monk, Calmecac trousers and Twilight belt are shit.

[ManaKing]

Yeah no idea where a DA cap is coming from. If you managed to get 100% that would be cool.....but you probably could have built a better setup for whatever you are doing.