dev1069 Phantom Roll Effect Adjustments feedback

[SpankWustler]

It's... a... Blue Mage buff...? *wonders*

Maybe it'd be worthwhile if it let us break 999 defense? Someone run the numbers on that.

Unless you mean just for Cannonball, the way I understand it is this:

A bottom limit in the formula monsters use never allows their cRatio (a function of attack and a target's defense) to fall below a certain value. This basically means that if something is difficult enough to matter than defense will not matter. Especially not at extremely high values compared to moderate values.

The current effects of Signet make monster pDIF calculations function more like player pDIF calculations by adding level correction. So, you might notice a decent effect from defense on something Even Match or lower in a Signet area or the past. I doubt a buffed group would be fighting that kind of stuff, though.

Something in that is probably horribly wrong, so I hope somebody provides more accurate information, but I think I covered the matter in spirit.

As for Cannonball, I can be more brief and way more confident.

It's generally more beneficial to either melee or use magical spells from a distance since both of those options have recently blossomed for Blue Mage, and there are now better spells to use with Sneak Attack if you really want to go that route. Cannonball can still be handy for the rare case of pinning something, but it's likely you'd be solo without buffs from others in that situation.

[Seha]

I think last time I cared about the defense value it was my second month of playing, maybe earlier.

And what the blooyd pup at SaveTP nerf. God forbid jobs that are not sam can spam ws frequently.

[Malamasala]

I find it hilarious that SE are working on changing pet rolls, when the issue really is that they only effect pets. All rolls need to hit all party members and pets. And when that is fixed, you need to change BST, PUP and DRG roll into something new. Right now you are sitting there and making meaningless changes to the pet rolls instead of correcting the flaws of the system.

It is also good to see that we have fixed attack BST roll, so that pet jobs will fall behind melee jobs from level 50 and forward. A handy proof when you want to talk about how SE tries their best to remove pet jobs from the game. And they got what they wanted in FFXIV.



It is kind of funny to read about the Gallant's roll defense choice though. I thought you hated Summoner when you gave Titan defense bonus aura, but apparently it was just your delusions that defense aura was the best defensive aura we could ever have.

PS. I've never had anyone ever request defense aura. Do you honestly believe someone would request a defense roll? No they wouldn't. Go change Gallant's roll to something useful, and FIX THE AURA ON TITAN while you are at it.

[Greatguardian]

I couldn't say with certainty. It's probably fairly similar.

[SpankWustler]

Thanks. That explanation makes sense to me and I'm happy to go with it.

It's easy for anyone to rule out that getting hit works like hitting because stuff with decent base damage never hits for 0 regardless of a player's defense. From there, the only two options are that every monster in the game has vastly higher attack than anyone would ever expect or that there's a lower bound of some sort. The first obviously isn't true, so yeah, a floor of 1.0 on cRatio makes sense to me.

I'd feel bad pestering Byrth about where to find information about something that sucks just so I can more bitterly express how hard Gallant's Roll is going to suck. It's not like anything will be changed either way.

[Neisan_Quetz]

No, it never will, ever, never. A phalanx type roll would at least be situationally useful. A defense roll won't be useful.

It's pretty clear the devs don't play this game or do not know how their own game works.


EDIT: Actually, whoever the flying hell on a handbasket said a defense roll would be useful needs to be taken over the hills and put down with a shotgun.

[Mirabelle]

No, it never will, ever, never. A phalanx type roll would at least be situationally useful. A defense roll won't be useful.

It's pretty clear the devs don't play this game or do not know how their own game works.


EDIT: Actually, whoever the flying hell on a handbasket said a defense roll would be useful needs to be taken over the hills and put down with a shotgun.

Yeah you'd think they'd know by now. I mean how many times have they seen a BRD use Knight's Minne?

[Camate]

There have been some comments from players mentioning that they don’t see the point of defense as a stat, so I’d like to go into some detail on it.

As defense increases over an enemy’s attack power, the amount of damage reduced gradually tapers off. If the enemy you are fighting is lower level and your defense is way higher, it becomes more difficult to gain large benefits even if you increase your defense.

In instances where your defense is reduced via an enemy action, where your character’s defense would normally be higher than an enemy’s attack power, and the gap between the two is narrowed, the amount of damage being reduced will start to vary largely. This shows that you’ll take more damage when your defense is lowered, giving meaning to the value of your defense.

Another easy way of feeling the effects of defense is to face off against an even match enemy and compare the damage received with your armor equipped and off.

Since the effects of defense increase as defense is stacked, the benefits are by no means small, so it would be really helpful if we could receive feedback with this in mind.

For reference, Mocchi provided some test data.

Setup

• Compared physical damage taken between the following situations when fighting warrior-type monsters that were 15 levels higher than the level 99 PLD/WAR (defense 460) used for testing.

Naked/with Defender active/with Defender active + food effects (black curry bun)

Results

• Naked (Defense 460): 245 damage
• Defender (Defense 575): 216 damage
• Defender + food (Defense 663): 197 damage

Depending on the situation, the numbers may not be the same, but this is simply intended to serve as reference.

[Afania]

There have been some comments from players mentioning that they don’t see the point of defense as a stat, so I’d like to go into some detail on it.

As defense increases over an enemy’s attack power, the amount of damage reduced gradually tapers off. If the enemy you are fighting is lower level and your defense is way higher, it becomes more difficult to gain large benefits even if you increase your defense.

In instances where your defense is reduced via an enemy action, where your character’s defense would normally be higher than an enemy’s attack power, and the gap between the two is narrowed, the amount of damage being reduced will start to vary largely. This shows that you’ll take more damage when your defense is lowered, giving meaning to the value of your defense.

Another easy way of feeling the effects of defense is to face off against an even match enemy and compare the damage received with your armor equipped and off.

Since the effects of defense increase as defense is stacked, the benefits are by no means small, so it would be really helpful if we could receive feedback with this in mind.

For reference, Mocchi provided some test data.

Setup

• Compared physical damage taken between the following situations when fighting warrior-type monsters that were 15 levels higher than the level 99 PLD/WAR (defense 460) used for testing.

Naked/with Defender active/with Defender active + food effects (black curry bun)

Results

• Naked (Defense 460): 245 damage
• Defender (Defense 575): 216 damage
• Defender + food (Defense 663): 197 damage

Depending on the situation, the numbers may not be the same, but this is simply intended to serve as reference.

At this point of game, phalanx roll is more useful than defense roll, and opens up a few new situations where I'd use COR.

I want phalanx back ;(


Unless.....unless new event legion is full of HNMs that hits like a truck even on Ochain/Aegis PLD that survive-ability became an issue......is that the reason why Dev want to make it into defense roll so bad?

Or old cannonball BLU era coming back etc.

I'll just wait until Legion comes out I guess to see if there's any use for it......maybe it'd need it, idk .-.