dev1069 Phantom Roll Effect Adjustments feedback

[Kenthedeviant]

SE, if this is your approach and you really believe that defense is "better," then why not do some of your own testing and listen to some player feedback about how useless defense has become? No matter how much you have, it will never outweigh the massive attack power of stronger foes... So, honestly, please either completely change how defense even works, or just delete this roll and pretend it never existed because it will NEVER be used in any situation anyway.

[SpankWustler]

The effects of defense vary based on the opponent’s attack strength, so defense boost is more effective when fighting against stronger opponents compared with Phalanx, which has a fixed damage reduction. Defense boost also has a cumulative effect, which makes it more beneficial to paladins than physical damage reduction which becomes useless once the maximum limit is reached.

It must be nice to live in a world where Defense actually does this.

[Greatguardian]

It must be nice to live in a world where Defense actually does this.

Hey now, it totally does!

Except it's irrelevant because monster cRatio has a lower bound of 1.0, which is why that Tiny Mandragora outside Windurst can hit your level 99 Paladin with 5,000 defense for more than 0 damage.

[KigenAngelios]

Phalanx is the best of all options and would actually be useable. Defense is terrible.

[Mirabelle]

I bet the first thing on everyone's mind when they logged in to look was, "Here somes the miser's nerf."

You called it. You clearly understand balance.

So next update COR gains a bunch of newly revised but still useless rolls and gets their only go to roll nerfed. Damn SE, this job is too expensive to get the nerf bat.

[Yinnyth]

Q. How many corsairs would use PLD roll if it was switched to a defense+ buff?

A. How many bards use Knight's Minne?

[SpankWustler]

Hey now, it totally does!

Except it's irrelevant because monster cRatio has a lower bound of 1.0, which is why that Tiny Mandragora outside Windurst can hit your level 99 Paladin with 5,000 defense for more than 0 damage.

I really should have included "effectively" because yeah, that is technically how defense works. In retrospect, saying "Much like my wiener is an effective device for extinguishing flames. Let me at that forest fire in rural Nevada, Chief!" would have been cleverer anyway.

I've been trying to find a decent explanation or model of monster pDIF/player defense effects/etc. so I can complain harder about this. I keep finding stuff about avatars and various pets instead. You actually have a concrete number for a concrete thing, so I'm hopeful you could point me towards some of this stuff or just provide a relatively thorough explanation if you can be bothered?

[Chamaan]

It's... a... Blue Mage buff...? *wonders*

Maybe it'd be worthwhile if it let us break 999 defense? Someone run the numbers on that.

[SpankWustler]

It's... a... Blue Mage buff...? *wonders*

Maybe it'd be worthwhile if it let us break 999 defense? Someone run the numbers on that.

Unless you mean just for Cannonball, the way I understand it is this:

A bottom limit in the formula monsters use never allows their cRatio (a function of attack and a target's defense) to fall below a certain value. This basically means that if something is difficult enough to matter than defense will not matter. Especially not at extremely high values compared to moderate values.

The current effects of Signet make monster pDIF calculations function more like player pDIF calculations by adding level correction. So, you might notice a decent effect from defense on something Even Match or lower in a Signet area or the past. I doubt a buffed group would be fighting that kind of stuff, though.

Something in that is probably horribly wrong, so I hope somebody provides more accurate information, but I think I covered the matter in spirit.

As for Cannonball, I can be more brief and way more confident.

It's generally more beneficial to either melee or use magical spells from a distance since both of those options have recently blossomed for Blue Mage, and there are now better spells to use with Sneak Attack if you really want to go that route. Cannonball can still be handy for the rare case of pinning something, but it's likely you'd be solo without buffs from others in that situation.

[Seha]

I think last time I cared about the defense value it was my second month of playing, maybe earlier.

And what the blooyd pup at SaveTP nerf. God forbid jobs that are not sam can spam ws frequently.