dev1069 Phantom Roll Effect Adjustments feedback

[Greatguardian]

I really should have included "effectively" because yeah, that is technically how defense works. In retrospect, saying "Much like my wiener is an effective device for extinguishing flames. Let me at that forest fire in rural Nevada, Chief!" would have been cleverer anyway.

I've been trying to find a decent explanation or model of monster pDIF/player defense effects/etc. so I can complain harder about this. I keep finding stuff about avatars and various pets instead. You actually have a concrete number for a concrete thing, so I'm hopeful you could point me towards some of this stuff or just provide a relatively thorough explanation if you can be bothered?

To be perfectly honest, I'm having the same problems finding the data that I originally read. The 1.0 cRatio bound for monsters was something that was brought up years ago at this point, I just have a fairly wonky memory. A lot of the current pDif discussion is focused on players rather than monsters, and it doesn't seem like BGWiki has been updated with the old monster pDif data (or if it has, I'm being dumb and can't find the page). A lower bound on cRatio makes sense, however, because you can see that monsters of any level never, ever have less than 0.38 cRatio as this would allow them to hit for 0 regardless of their base damage.

An exact lower bound on cRatio is fairly easy to test if someone needs to recreate the original data, it would just be immensely time consuming. As far as I know, the model it follows is the same as it is for players, aside from the lower bound and the general lack of level correction for monsters (aside from Signet). Byrth probably has a better idea of where to find data this old, if you want to pursue it further.

What this means in practice, however, is that the minimum pDif roll that any monster can hit with 1.0 cRatio is 0.699 on a non-crit - which is to say, even with "Capped" defense a monster will still be able to hit you for 70% of his total weapon damage (base + fStr). Considering the kind of base damages that the monsters you'd want to cap defense on have, and the stagnant curve for player HP growth, this isn't exactly stellar.

[Huevriel]

We plan on setting the value of the defense boost at around 30% when the highest number is rolled. This boost will be applied to the final defensive value after the effects of gear, abilities and spells are factored in and will reduce physical damage taken. This effect will vary based on the opponent’s strength and the player’s defense stats, but we expect this defense boost to be more significant than the originally planned Phalanx effect. (In addition, players can still reduce damage even further through gear and Phalanx.)

I'm still ok with this. I am saddened, however, because I was really hoping for a phalanx roll that stacked with phalanx.
I hope the tests show positive results.
I'm biased with the player side on this one. Phalanx would be preferred in the situational sense that I'd like to see myself pull off 0 - 1 damage during parry skill ups, allowing me to pull groups of mobs at a time and expedite skill up rates.

If they say the def boosts will give better results than phalanx boost, then I'll wait and see.

I want to note that they talk about how this roll greatly affects jobs that already have high defense (i.e. PLD).
Corsair does not have too high of a defense. Will this new gallant's roll still have greater results than a phalanx roll?

[Byrth]

Harharharharharharharhar

Instead of getting Phalanx (useful in some situations) you'll get Defense, which is useful in almost no situations. Congrats, CORs.

[Greatguardian]

Stack this on top of a tremendous nerf to our most powerful roll and it is just not a good day to be a Corsair.

Are the Devs really so afraid of us having unique buffs that complement Bard rather than being completely obsoleted by them? Miser's Roll was our golden goose.

Screw it, I'm really just tired of this. The game finally moves into 2012 and suddenly the brakes are hit, bricks are shat, and everyone's scattering to turn the clock back to 2009 as quickly as possible.

You know what I remember about 2009? Dead game jokes.

[Karbuncle]

I think the core of the problem here is that Defense is pretty much the most useless stat in the video game right now. The Defense formula for PC's after level 50 or so becomes just so skewed in favor of the enemy its a meaningless buff.

Protect is generally just cast out of habit, not because it really does anything.

[Coldbrand]

No actually defense is terrible, sorry.

[Kenthedeviant]

SE, if this is your approach and you really believe that defense is "better," then why not do some of your own testing and listen to some player feedback about how useless defense has become? No matter how much you have, it will never outweigh the massive attack power of stronger foes... So, honestly, please either completely change how defense even works, or just delete this roll and pretend it never existed because it will NEVER be used in any situation anyway.

[KigenAngelios]

Phalanx is the best of all options and would actually be useable. Defense is terrible.

[Yinnyth]

Q. How many corsairs would use PLD roll if it was switched to a defense+ buff?

A. How many bards use Knight's Minne?

[Chamaan]

It's... a... Blue Mage buff...? *wonders*

Maybe it'd be worthwhile if it let us break 999 defense? Someone run the numbers on that.