The FFXI "Gyms of Vana'diel" Self Improvement Reborn!

[Glamdring]

Ok, I can understand the angst about making something else "easy" in the game, I really can. I'm one of the more vocal people on here about not expanding job abilities and the like to preserve balance and such. However, even SE has acknowledged that the current skill-up system is not getting the job done and they have been looking for a mechanism to correct that, particularily for those skills that are extremely hard to do. This is a viable idea that even the SE development team has expressed an interest in.

To allay concerns, I can only offer this, and it is simply my opinion:
1. Jobs were designed with a particular skill set in mind, and even hardcore elitists have great difficulty reaching those peaks due to holes in the current system, this is simply designed to allow jobs to reach their actual design.
2. the rewards for participating in this system are designed to simply be used within this system, nobody intends that you get a reward from the gym that will put someone's mythic weapon to shame.
3. I personally believe that you shouldn't be able to gain XP in the gym, only skill and gym rewards, and I think that is sort of the universal feeling.
4. To compensate you for your time away from XP, Crafting, farming, etc. you are rewarded with an increased rate of skill-up, but noone is advocating just botting your way from 0-356 in 1 day, but more like a max of say 5-6 skill in an approximately 30 minute session if you are approaching your cap; in other words, your time in the gym is still putting in your time.
5. To satisfy elitists, the gym rats (or maggots if we go with the military training version) still need to acquire spells, gear and everything else needed to be viable in their job, i.e. 354 marksmanship isn't going to do much with a light crossbow and a bronze bolt against AV.

I'm in favor of this for more than just my own benefit. I don't have to put up with guilt trips because I'm not willing to carry a level 90 noob now, I can simply send them packing, tell them to come back after they put in their time in the gym, and /blist them until they do.

Seriously, SE isn't going to do away with the ability to go 30-90 in less than a week with no idea of how to do your job at the end or no skill to get anything done even if you do! This is the complement to Abyssea. If the current playstyle is "level now, skill later" Abyssea is clearly the "level now", this gives the "skill later"-hopefully at a saner rate.

[kingfury]

Regardless of our differing view points it's cool to see other people that are still passionate about the game. Hell if we can get the PvP aspect in along with the skill up programs in one centralized area in each major city I, and many others will be happy. While I might come off as a grumbling old grumpy "Don't change my ffxi" or "In my day sonny we had to walk uphill to AND from school" sort, I do like new players. I always try to help them where I can. Which I believe is your goal here with the detailed proposal you've fleshed out.

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/bow Thanks for the healthy debate /salute I respect anyone that can respect another's views without having to flame and toss out names and such lol. Here's to hoping for a healthy medium should SE start working on this concept /cheers

[Strife]

I see Zaknafein's point & in a way I agree that some aspects of the game have become a little to easy. I kind of miss the old school game play even though if I take off the rosy goggles of nostalgia I remember XP'n was mostly seeking for hours only to get in a party with a war, 2DD that hardly did any DD, a bst that thought pets were optional & a brd that wouldn't ballad because he was a 'melee' brd with his little knife who screamed at my rdm when I'd haste the war but not him. Then heading to some remote place that took us a hour to get to because one member or another didn't have this OP or that KI, where every mob almost wiped us & we constantly got links or bad rep-pops that did wipe us to get 2-6k an hour lol.
Yet in spite of myself I do miss those days when XP'n was an art, an adventure to test your might against the various hordes of Vana 'diel and find that sweet camp that matched your current capabilities perfectly & then later testing your new capabilities against harder foes. It was a fiery forge that usual -though with great exceptions- moulded people into decent players. Instead now we have a system needing no strategy just an alliance with half a dozen afk people, 3-4 lv30ish people, level 90 mages who say "I don't have that spell" about lv 30 spells & all the key spells you would usually employ them to cast & 3-5 actually good players who're carrying the rest of the alliance fighting mobs you could solo anyway.

However generally I still prefer the way things are now, I spent years levelling my jobs & becoming decently proficient in them. The thought of levelling them to 99 the old way with ever expanding gulfs of XP between each level was enough to make me want to quit. I'm enjoying just having fun with my jobs and exploring all the game content at the moment & I wouldn't worry Zaknafein I'm sure come 99 there will be new ways to test a players worth & those players that just levelled their jobs without bothering to take the extra effort to learn to play them will soon be weeded out & forced to learn how to play.

But enough of my nostalgic ramblings, to get back on topic the ideas here are just that, ideas on how a system to offer a challenging & FUN alternative to just constantly auto-attacking a mob for hours while also teaching those noobs that burned from 30-90+ in Abyssia how to actually play the job they've only been playing a week. I don't think King or most people here would mind if the development team put their own spin on it & made it just as challenging but not as boring/ grinding as the old school way.

[Harpalina]

I really hope SE implements some of these ideas...I mean, that was the whole point of putting these forums together, right? So SE can take in some player feedback and change some of the glaring errors and make FFXI an even more enjoyable experience? Well, if one of the moderators said that they were going to forward this thread to the development team, then it might have a good chance of at least being considered.

[Deadlyscorpion]

I really hope SE implements some of these ideas...I mean, that was the whole point of putting these forums together, right? So SE can take in some player feedback and change some of the glaring errors and make FFXI an even more enjoyable experience? Well, if one of the moderators said that they were going to forward this thread to the development team, then it might have a good chance of at least being considered.

Going to be a bit tough with EVERYONE throwing their ideas, 90% of which are utter garbage. They did a massive cleanup not too long ago of all the useless posts. If this keeps up they'll overlook good posts such as this one with the constant stream of "I hate X and/or Y sign here to have SE remove it" or "I love X and/or Y old content, please make the game the way I want it and screw the community as a whole" garbage posts that have been popping up the last few days.

[Siros]

I must say this is an awesome concept,i like it,and i back it completely.

!.) This is a great idea for making skill ups fun,adding something new and enjoyable ta the game.
2.)This also gives players who dont have a lot of time during the week something rewarding ta do instead of boring old crafting...

U sir are a bright one,i applaud u /cheer

[kingfury]

I must say this is an awesome concept,i like it,and i back it completely.
!.) This is a great idea for making skill ups fun,adding something new and enjoyable ta the game.
2.)This also gives players who dont have a lot of time during the week something rewarding ta do instead of boring old crafting...
U sir are a bright one,i applaud u /cheer

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/kneel Thank you much friend for the feedback/support and compliment ^^/

[kingfury]

**EDIT TO ORIGINAL**
ENEMY HORDES
Description: Enemy Hordes is a gymnasium game that pits players against wave after wave of ever increasing beastmen combatants trying to prevent them from reaching their commanding beastmen officers. Akin to the heated fast pace action of Campaign battles, Enemy Hordes combines intense combat with entertaining game strategies and co-op play with both players and npcs to achieve victory.

System Mechanics:
Combat and Magic skill ups will be possible to acquire during these battles. In the middle of each game room would be a "Gym Manual" that would offer Horde options that once set would begin the regimen. The selected difficulty can range from Easy Prey to Incredibly Tough, and even Impossible to Gauge in special elite regimens. Participants ranging from one to six can participate in this Gym game. Like all Gym games, players will be able to choose a version option of play (similar to the PvP version options) including Standard, Official, and Enhanced. Players will have a K.O. limit of 3 before no longer being able to reraise and participate in the game. If all participants have reached their K.O. limit, the game will be lost and eject the players from the game room.

Playing the Game:
Waves:
Upon starting the regimen, a random number of beastmen will spawn around all participants and begin to attack any near by players. These groups of enemies are considered "waves". The ultimate goal of Enemy Hordes is to successfully decimate all enemy waves in an effort to reach the corresponding beastman NM Boss and defeat it.
Wave Mechanics:
Regardless of the random number of spawned beastmen per enemy wave, once the beastmen combatant numbers have suffered a 50% loss, special npc helpers called "Demolition Specialist"(aka DS) will appear to aid both players and beastmen alike. The npc Demolition Specialists for players will appear as one of the Vana'diel races, while the beastmen npc Demolition Specialists will be imps. The number of player Demolition Specialist npcs that appear will depend on the remaining number of beastmen. Alternatively, the number of imps will depend on the number of players. While these npcs will have moderate HP, they are not fighters, thus are not very durable and will perish quickly if not supported. Players will want to focus on disposing of the enemy helpers quickly to ensure a successful wave as these helpers hold the potential to do massive damage if successful in their mission.
Demolition Specialist:
The sole mission of these npc specialist is to quickly decimate any remaining combatants in the current wave by successfully attaching and rigging powerful explosives to one of the opposing combatants. They are incredibly proficient in the art of quickly rigging explosives, but have never lifted a weapon in their lives and thus must be protected in order fulfill their critical role during waves. Each npc will be stunned for 5 seconds after taking 1-2 melee hits(1 critical hit will stun) or 1-2 damaging magic spells(1 magical critical hit will stun). They have, however, been trained in the art of complete and unflinching focus while performing their task, so are immune to all forms of stun, petrification, paralyze, slow, and sleep(JA or spell forms).
These specialist need exactly 10 seconds to successfully rig an explosive to an enemy. Any combatant targeted by these specialist will become temporarily bound until the they are interrupted and stunned. Once rigged, the explosive will instantly K.O. the rigged combatant and severely damage any surrounding team combatants with a far reaching and potent AoE blast radius. This can completely turn the tide of any wave battle, which is why these helpers are crucial(yet not mandatory) in successfully making quick work of an enemy wave.
Upon successfully rigging an explosive, the DS npcs will disappear and all players will flash a level up animation that restores to full HP/MP and signals a slight increase in skill ups. Each successfully planted explosive will yield a time bonus reduction to the necessary rigging time by 1 second the next time the npcs appear, up to a maximum reduction of -5 seconds. This bonus will wear off, and the rigging time will be reset completely should any of the npcs be K.O.'d. Should these npcs fail to complete their mission due to being K.O.'d, there appearance in the very next wave will be delayed until the following wave.
Boss Beastmen NM:
After successfully decimating wave after wave of beastmen, players will face a final wave of beastmen that includes a Boss Beastman NM. These NMs are the very same legendary Beastmen NMs from the bloodstained battlefields of the Wings of the Goddess Campaign zones. They appear in this game commanding multiple DS imps amongst other beastmen. A delicate balance of both focus and speed will have to be displayed by players when facing these bosses as they will occasionally summon random numbers of DS imps to cripple the advancing player combatants. Players will also have the chance to successfully rig explosives on the surrounding enemy combatants in an effort to score high damage against the enemy beastmen, DS imps, and the Boss NM. If players were successful in maintaining the time bonus reduction to the DS rigging time throughout the preceding waves, there should be wonderfully fast-paced, crippling explosions going on all around the battle. Player DS's, unfortunately, will not be able to rig their explosives directly on the Boss NMs. Once the Boss NM has fallen, the game will be won.

Rewards:
EXP, "Tokens", and "Medals" are the rewards for completing a Enemy Hordes game. The use of "Medals" could drastically improve game session results since they will be designed to enhance certain aspects of a players performance, like the rate of which skill ups occur, enhanced attack speeds, rapid refresh, and more, while undertaking game sessions. Such Medals will require moderate amounts of tokens to acquire, but the end results would be well worth the effort.

[Harpalina]

Fury! Login so I can befriend you :P

[kingfury]

Fury! Login so I can befriend you :P

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Just gettin in ^^ I'll be on shortly! /shutters to think how long it's been with out FFXI @.@