Ok...let me level with you here SE...

[Greatguardian]

While I understand your viewpoint more now, and sympathize with it to an extent, you are playing the wrong game if you boil everything down to your worth in manhours and use that to judge whether to participate in an event (especially because not everything has a market alternative). I hesitate to use the hackneyed phrase "don't hate the playa, hate the game," but I can't think of anything more appropriate. Most of the game is a grind. I could have made reams of gil farming when I was spamming Akvan for Heka Kalasiris, but I went ahead and did the event because I wanted the gear, not the gil. Most people who play this game do not weigh their choice of activities based on individual manhours to gil ratio.

As for fun, hell most people in my shell last night had fun when they chose the right clone and we killed ADL. They enjoyed the change of pace from endless Logwatch.

I only still play the game because I have fun. I simply do not enjoy ADL, and frankly neither will your linkshell after a while if you have more than a couple relics. There is no reason for me or anyone else to throw away millions of gil on an event that they do not find fun.

[Mahoro]

Perhaps (updated my last post btw with "fun" elements). We throw away millions of gil for our "manhours" on Voidwatch though when we are through having fun killing Pil/Akvan, etc. It's all subjective in the end and the nature of SE's game.

[Greatguardian]

Perhaps (updated my last post btw with "fun" elements). We throw away millions of gil for our "manhours" on Voidwatch though when we are through having fun killing Pil/Akvan, etc. It's all subjective in the end and the nature of SE's game.

Abyssea had nothing to do with wising up. People knew the worth of their time long before that mess. Why is that such a quick fallback for everyone these days? It's dumb, and only attempts to convolute the issue.

Voidwatch is a poor example because the items people are trying to obtain do not have a static gil value. Rather, they have an infinitely high value. People will either pay in whatever amount it takes to obtain a body, or they won't. It's not the least bit subjective.

[Mahoro]

Most people were valuing VW bodies as 20 million based on the dev's suggested implementation of tickets. Sure, it doesn't have a static gil value, but you can bet that whatever gil value it DOES have is many many times lower than the hundreds of manhours people have invested in NM's that don't drop anything but logs. My point is we do stuff that doesn't directly compensate our hours for gil all the time, and will continue to do so.

EDIT: In fact, VW with a ticket system is a better analogy. Once the tickets are implemented, bodies WILL have a static cost. However, the secondary market will be extremely low because people won't do PUGs if they already have the rare item, and most tickets will remain intra-LS because that is commonly when someone will do a VW and get an extra ticket for something they already have. Limited-to-zero market alternative, and all the opportunity cost gil in the world you could farm in Dynamis won't get you closer to the item. At some point, if you want the item, you will have to spam the NM another hundred times in PUGs or join a LS where tickets are sold/DKP'd to other members.

[Greatguardian]

Most people were valuing VW bodies as 20 million based on the dev's suggested implementation of tickets. Sure, it doesn't have a static gil value, but you can bet that whatever gil value it DOES have is many many times lower than the hundreds of manhours people have invested in NM's that don't drop anything but logs. My point is we do stuff that doesn't directly compensate our hours for gil all the time, and will continue to do so.

EDIT: In fact, VW with a ticket system is a better analogy. Once the tickets are implemented, bodies WILL have a static cost. However, the secondary market will be extremely low because people won't do PUGs if they already have the rare item, and most tickets will remain intra-LS because that is commonly when someone will do a VW and get an extra ticket for something they already have. Limited-to-zero market alternative, and all the opportunity cost gil in the world you could farm in Dynamis won't get you closer to the item. At some point, if you want the item, you will have to spam the NM another hundred times in PUGs or join a LS where tickets are sold/DKP'd to other members.

The bodies can be valued if and only if there is a ticket system. If there is a ticket system, smart people will stop doing Voidwatch as it would be a complete waste of their time when they can just buy bodies (assuming a 20M pricetag). As long as the ticket system is not currently implemented, then the bodies have infinite cost which explains the past trends.

[Mahoro]

If they can find a body ticket, sure. I don't expect the secondary market to flourish because of the scenario I laid out in my last post where most, if not all, tickets will be traded/sold/DKP'd in the confines of a LS.

In any event, the reason I used this analogy is that there is no current viable market alternative for Umbral Marrow. Hell, if I could just tell the relicholders in my shell to farm up 6 million and buy each Marrow rather than waste a LS event on it, don't you think I would? That won't happen though, so I have to compensate my members in other ways. They seemed happy enough when we farmed Relic, Forgottens, and currency in the time we had left over in Xarca. Hell, they got MORE during that LS event than they get in Voidwatch usually.

It remains my hope that SE lowers the requirement of the trial.

[Greatguardian]

A full alliance of 18 people getting more in a lowman-geared level 90 event than a level 99 alliance-based event? No way.

6Mil/Marrow is laughably cheap. Why? Because of the god damned opportunity cost. That's how these things are priced. That's why no one will sell them and no one will buy them. The opportunity cost you'd have to incur to farm ADL means that each marrow would be worth an easy 20M+, essentially costing relic holders another 100M+ (another full relic) to go from 95-99. Whether they pay that out or do the event themselves makes no difference, it's still 100M down the drain.

Why you're somehow unable to see that and insist on arguing with everyone here is beyond me.

[Nynja]

How do people still not understand why the baseline value of 20 mil per marrow came to existence and why it wont change?

[Alerith]

People don't seem to comprehend the value of what is lost if you're spending the whole run trying to get marrow. You're missing out on millions in easily farmable currency or currency that could be used on a brand new relic.

And really, who's honestly lining up for a Sagasinger or either Archon item? Nobody is going to farm ADL for marrow when you can easily make more, faster, and with more benefit to the other people with other means.

[Nynja]

I've already broken down the ADL drops:
The swords are pretty garbage, the sagasinger glows, so its a trophy item...but then again any item with a 0.1% drop rate is a trophy item, which begs the VW question of why are people bitching and moaning about inventory space about having to hold mekira's/toci's?
The archon items are weaker versions of the shadow items. Instead of annuling damage 10% of the time, they'll annul severe damage 10% of the time. The only decent thing about the ring is its the best Comet ring out there...of course if you're casting Comet theres a 99% chance you're dumb (the other 1% being a taru with dark dmg+6% staves), and would explain why you want ADL items.

There really is no incentive to ADL -.-