Ok...let me level with you here SE...

[Greatguardian]

Also, GG's points re: HNM camping being a waste of time and product/fun idea are subjective. Objectively, these events were done. We aren't in 2005 here. You are making a value judgment on a known phenomenon that happened years ago. It's a phenomenon I'm glad I wasn't involved in hardcore, but not every shell that camped HNM's would have sold that desired drop to another LS no matter how many manhours you expended to pay its price tag.

Are you being intentionally dense? The point that doing HNMs was a net loss for many shells is an objective stance. The fact that people did it in the first place indicates that they enjoyed the content to some degree, or just didn't know better.

Objectively? Farming gil and buying drops was better for a hell of a lot of stuff. Still is. But unless some people find Arch Dynamis Lord super fun and thrilling and totally worth doing regardless of the drops, you're going to have to weigh people's proclivity towards the event against the opportunity cost they incur by doing it. Every relic taken 95-99 is essentially another 75 Relic that could have been built from scratch.

You're also completely convoluting the issue. It's not a matter of people entering Dynamis or not entering Dynamis. They already entered Dynamis. The opportunity cost being weighed is what they're doing after entering Dynamis. They're there. They have a choice between farming ADL and farming currency. Farming ADL means not farming nearly as much currency. That is a loss.

[Mahoro]

Are you being intentionally dense? The point that doing HNMs was a net loss for many shells is an objective stance. The fact that people did it in the first place indicates that they enjoyed the content to some degree, or just didn't know better.

Or that they did stuff in the game that benefited the one or two over the many, in return for similar favors being done for them or for LS DKP. The fact that the game shifted to the point where you are distilling everything down to its opportunity cost (or more specifically, "how much gil is this time costing me?") says more about player temperament these days than anything else. At this point, it is clear SE isn't changing the trial, likely just the number of drops. I may not like the trial myself, but Hell, I'm willing to give it a go in my own LS.

Regarding the HNM scene being a "net loss", it's still subjective. You are neglecting the argument in my previous post that most HNMLS did not sell the drops they were camping until most, if not all, of their LS was capped on the gear. You are viewing the HNM scene from circa 2007-2008, where LS's affirmatively camped the Kings for the express purpose of making gil from people who wanted to buy the drops. However, back in the early days of Kings, the HNMLS were botting/competing over claims to gear their LS and "wasting" all that time camping because they felt they had no choice. Doing HNM wasn't a "net loss" for these shells because all the farming in the world wouldn't have bought them their E. Bodies. It was the nature of the game. Shells competed fiercely, and some would rather have CFH'd the King or let abjurations hit the floor than dare sell to a competing LS. Marrow won't be any different for those groups that do it. The secondary market will be near-nonexistent as most Marrow generated will stay intra-group. The shells that DO undertake this trial won't consider it a "net loss" because there will likely be no viable market alternative.

Objectively? Farming gil and buying drops was better for a hell of a lot of stuff. Still is. But unless some people find Arch Dynamis Lord super fun and thrilling and totally worth doing regardless of the drops, you're going to have to weigh people's proclivity towards the event against the opportunity cost they incur by doing it. Every relic taken 95-99 is essentially another 75 Relic that could have been built from scratch.

Sure, a Relic that will never be 99 if nobody ever actually does this trial. I am not denying the statistics that you could make another 75 Relic for the time and manpower involved in making a 99 Relic, but if we are really comparing timesinks here, why upgrade ANY weapon? Might as well compare the time and manpower hours involved in getting an Empy to 90 to the time it would take another Empy to be built from scratch for the people who help you, or other things in-game they could be doing WHILE helping you. I actually agree with you that people will weigh their proclivity toward the event against its downsides. Ultimately, I feel that SE misrepresented this trial to their playerbase since a majority of the 95 Relicholders will not finish this.

You're also completely convoluting the issue. It's not a matter of people entering Dynamis or not entering Dynamis. They already entered Dynamis. The opportunity cost being weighed is what they're doing after entering Dynamis. They're there. They have a choice between farming ADL and farming currency. Farming ADL means not farming nearly as much currency. That is a loss.

Again, assumes those are the only two goals for someone entering Dynamis, or that they care about hardcore farming currency. I'm not convoluting the issue, I'm pointing out assumptions inherent in the argument that 17 other people are "wasting" 2 mill. Perhaps 4-5 of the people in the ally are relicholders who want to lot Marrow. Perhaps another 3-4 people are helpers who don't step into Dynamis regularly and are only doing so because they get DKP for a LS event. Perhaps another 1-2 people want a chance to lot on Sagasinger. You are looking at everything in terms of pure gil loss, and declaring the event DOA because it is literally taking gil out of your pocket. And that's fine for your goals. I wouldn't force those people in my LS to come on an ADL run. I am saying that if everybody viewed every event in the game through that lens, there would be no "utility" to doing most things when they could just be spending every waking moment in game farming gil. But some activities are done for gear, not gil.