Ok...let me level with you here SE...

[Zumi]

The problem with ADL still is nobody will want to go. People lose 2m gil each by helping you and with no benefit to them they will likly not want to help you.

Its much easier to get help with PW from random people because they don't lose anything in the process. With having to kill ADL you lose your dynamis lockout for the day which is worth about 2m in currency sales to you if you solo. Finding people to come help you kill ADL for only your benefit just won't fly with most people.

Do the devs even play the game. PW at level 99 is a complete joke. Last time I fought PW was at 90 and he was a joke even then but even more so now. Sure you have to kill a bunch of weak ZNM to build a pop but its much easier then killing ADL.

Just the way ADL works too you may or may not kill it.

[Zinato]

I'm sure someone will find fault in it but why not have the trial branch with the same rewards? (or even slightly different as i'll explain a lil further down)

branch 1:
The current 5 marrow/ 3 PW item / and void w/e (so then the people who started to gather early can be happy)

branch 2:
something solo or low-man that takes a 'long time' Ex: 5-10k kills with weapon (SE could even throw in a stipulation that doesnt allow you to get a stage 2 through this path, sortof like the fake empy's or something)

This would allow the marrows to still have value, and be the quicker path (given you have the support) to your relic and the people who can't or have a severe aversion to arch dynamis can slowly and safely work out their own upgrade.

Yes this will make it harder to get help on arch dynamis but in so far as i've seen nothing really promotes doing arch dynamis except changing his drops.

All ideas have fault, otherwise they would be unconditionally the right answer. The idea has merit, please consider this constructive criticism. First, given the nature of these weapons I don't think they would ever close off Stage 2. Branching is a great idea but, there are two things I am nearly sure SE is going for. First, I'm fairly sure they wish to maintain a once a day limit as a means to balance casual and hardcore. In other words prevent a player playing 18 hours a day from having a major advantage over someone who plays 3. Second, and this I'm sure of, they want to maintain the Relic story meaning a trial to grant it power would need to have some origin with dynamis, or the crystal war era. Adjust the conditions to something related to one of the two and it could work. One path faster in a group, one designed for a small team.

[Ravenmore]

To hell with Prestige, if I cared about it I'd be crying as hard as everybody else about the unreal requirements. I can't dual box nor can I do RMTstyle 6 account ducklings in a row to kill stuff like the majority of bitching population. I'm solely at the mercy of having to maintain relationships with actual people, with varied schedules and demands on their lives. Yes, we're grown up now and I acknowledge that and thus time to accomplish things are precious. I also accept people with limited time are more than capable of setting priorities and staging their goals accordingly.... oh wait .. I forgot, this is WoWFantasy 2012.

Never mind.

Yeah keep on thinking you can con 17 other sheep into helping you. Nothing ADL drops is worth it, DL drops you would be better off in doing it with 6 to be done faster then fighting 16(17 if the guy you are doing ADL for is a dick) other people over it. Then out of those 17 others helping you how many have relic them selfs? If one has on then you are now over 10 kils you have to do and for each person you can add 5 to 7 kills if RNG doesn't crap on you too. You give you friends to much credit more so if they have a relic too.

[Insaniac]

All ideas have fault, otherwise they would be unconditionally the right answer. The idea has merit, please consider this constructive criticism. First, given the nature of these weapons I don't think they would ever close off Stage 2. Branching is a great idea but, there are two things I am nearly sure SE is going for. First, I'm fairly sure they wish to maintain a once a day limit as a means to balance casual and hardcore. In other words prevent a player playing 18 hours a day from having a major advantage over someone who plays 3. Second, and this I'm sure of, they want to maintain the Relic story meaning a trial to grant it power would need to have some origin with dynamis, or the crystal war era. Adjust the conditions to something related to one of the two and it could work. One path faster in a group, one designed for a small team.

1) There is no limit to the amount of time anyone can spend on either of the other weapon types per day so for these trials that is out the window.

2) The first 6 relic trials took place outside of dynamis so that is also out.

[Zinato]

I ment specifically Relic, empyrean never had any limit and neither did mythic (outside prequests)

As far as prior trials that is correct, again this apply to only the 99 trial as it unlock the weapons true potential (On the assumption Afterglow is done in the same method as 99 only more) Mythic involves the strongest current ToAU enemy, Empyrean involves the strongest creatures of the Void. (A place on the other side of Atomos just like Abyssea)

[Insaniac]

I ment specifically Relic, empyrean never had any limit and neither did mythic (outside prequests)

As far as prior trials that is correct, again this apply to only the 99 trial as it unlock the weapons true potential (On the assumption Afterglow is done in the same method as 99 only more) Mythic involves the strongest current ToAU enemy, Empyrean involves the strongest creatures of the Void. (A place on the other side of Atomos just like Abyssea)

I know you were talking about relics only but if they aren't concerned with limiting the effort you can put forth for the others why would that be a concern with relics when relics are the most abundant?

Mythics involves killing a level 75 content NM, Emps involve spamming dynamis for gil and camping bazaars. Consistency is a cop out. I would welcome a 30 day "perform 10k relic WS" trial instead of a 5 day "fuck your friends" trial or a 100 day "I'm a nice guy so I will help you now" trial. If consistency is a concern add a "10k WS" trial branch for all 3. Plenty of people would still do the item requirement stage 1s just to be done faster.

[Zinato]

In the end its an irrelevant point, because in the end no matter what they do players will find a way around the trial so long as the item is purchasable. I think the only constant issue right now is ADL is far stronger then the other 2/3 required NMs for the other super weapons, so it either has to be changed to a new NM (only one so that everyone does the same fight, not just filter to the easiest NM that offers the drop) or there needs to be greater compensation for the other 17 players involved. Even at 1 required drop from ADL, those not lucky enough to have 18 people in their LS are basically being told you are SoL.

[Nynja]

In the end its an irrelevant point, because in the end no matter what they do players will find a way around the trial so long as the item is purchasable.

Except ADL's item will pretty much never be purchasable...the only people who will be killing it are people who are gonna bite the bullet and concede to SE's retarded trial requirement. Once they're done, they're done lol.

[Atoreis]

LOL man I wasn't going to say anything earlier.

1000 to 20, ppl still whine.

20 to 5, people still crying?






I have an idea, SE should just make an NPC where you can trade your 95 relic and he'll give you the 99 version w/ afterglow in exchange

Ppl will then cry that they cant find this NPC...

[Zinato]

Sorry, misunderstanding I was telling Insaniac we were basically discussing nothing since what the reasoning behind the choice of where merrow drops has nothing to do with the fact that ADL is not suitable.

As far as that second comment, so long as players have gil, there will always be those willing to throw gil around to get what they want. I wouldn't put it past players to offer 1-2m per player who go on a successful ADL run effectively making the final stage cost ~100-200m. With enough money players will buy anything and those lucky enough to have lots of gil often ruin it for others around them. personally, I have very little respect for players who buy r/x equipment or r/x trial items.