Ok...let me level with you here SE...

[Karbuncle]

I don't care if they made the Trial more difficult, As long as we didn't have to kill Arch Dynamis Lord.

ANYTHING but Arch Dynamis Lord. I'd take Having to kill Botulus Rex 100 TImes, At least he's consistently winnable and has no Coin Toss factors.

[Nynja]

I don't care if they made the Trial more difficult, As long as we didn't have to kill Arch Dynamis Lord.

ANYTHING but Arch Dynamis Lord. I'd take Having to kill Botulus Rex 100 TImes, At least he's consistently winnable and has no Coin Toss factors.

Watch out, you're going to trigger Atroies's rage because he already bought his 60 rifts!!

[Babygyrl]

Greetings.

Some of you have already posted the information that was on the Japanese forums, but here it is again, officially.

Required number of items
As a result of adjustments to match the trial difficulty, the below are the current numbers that are planned for the stage 1 version of the weapon upgrades.

• Relic Weapons: 5 items
• Mythic Weapons: 3 items
• Empyrean Weapons: 60 items

※As we are currently carefully looking into the number of items required for stage 2, we will let you know the specifics once the information is available.

Well its official that i am officially disappointed. It is a real shame, you informed us this trial will be able to be done by almost "everyone" for part 1. If this is going to be the final product for the trial, then SE has clearly lied to us all. This trial is not doable by everyone, UNLESS you have a boat load of gil to buy the items. Collecting an item from a extremely difficult NM is not balanced in the slightest. Unless you have a secret up your sleeve and the item is going to drop from regular NM's as well, then there is just no hope for us is there? How long does SE expect this game to live on? years? That is Highly doubtful.

I am personally going to be content with Mandau at 95. 2 damage and 5 attack is not going to be worth the pain and suffering that will be endured to fight ADL. I am just disappointed on how the development team has pretty much teased/fooled us all. They have forgotten that some people spent years building their relics/mythics just to level 75. It took my husband over 3 years to finally complete Gungnir only being able able to do so once Dynamis changed. And now he is never going to get to complete it to 99, because of this terrible trial. Fighting an NM like ADL should be fun and a Achievement, not a painful chore. By adding this item to ADL for a trial that Many will need, you have completely taken the fun out of fighting something that difficult.

I have enjoyed the new dynamis changes, and i would have never ever decided to build a mandau if the changes were never made, i felt like they were just so unfair/hard to obtain. (I still feel this way about mythics) But at the very least, it was doable because people you got in your ls to come would get AF they really wanted in return. There is nothing people are going to want from ADL to even bother helping anyone do it. Hell, building a mandau is the only thing keeping me interested in the game right now, there is simply nothing else to do.

I thought the point of the Magaian trials was suppose to be something fun, and rewarding at the same time. Having the capability to Build all of them either as a group or alone, gives everyone a fair advantage. The entire point of playing a game is to have fun, and these trials will certainly not be fun for any mythic/relic/emp owners. I would rather have trials that are slow/steady/consistent then what these have come out to be, seeing progress and growth keeps me interested, not something like ADL killing which would make me stressed out to no end. To say you cant change the trial because people "already started collecting" the items is such a lie, and not doing kills for these NMs because everyone would get credit is bad" clearly states that SE pretty much wants 99 relics/emp/mythics to be non existent. Well if you wanted to achieve "balance" in a sense that no one rather then everyone will obtain it, you sure will have achieved that goal. So in closing these trials need/should be completely changed, NM's that hard should not be involved in these trials period. However, we all know they do not care what we want. Unless ffxi development team has content in the works worth staying for ( and this sure as hell dont cut it) Do not be surprised when the player base begins to sink even more.

[Sparthos]

There is no point there. People will do ADL, for it. People will help others with it. People have always gone to far greater lengths to help friends and LS members out than about ten less than two hour long events, spread out over a an arbitrary length of time. And it will be done again.

Arcon, buddy we're in 2012 and this game isn't what it used to be at the height of LS runs. Abyssea changed things, behaviors changed over time and the game has shifted from gearing one man on the backs of many to mutual benefit in events like Abyssea, Voidwatch, Walk of Echoes and soon Legion. This was all SEs doing yet they somehow reached the conclusion to pull something from the 2007 closet.

This trial sticks out like a sore thumb, a festering gash, a stinky gym sock from the days of FFXI long past. While some LS still relish in gearing dear leader at any cost most people are simply not going to be willing to join a group to gear up some schmuck with a 99 relic with no gain.

SE has been so adamant about 'fairness' and then they go around and then release content like this where 1 person gains and 17 lose. Beyond the usual SE statements we have a term for the current actions and it's called 'flip flopping'. Perhaps Tanaka should get into politics. What is it? Fair play to the extreme or the pyramid schemes of FFXI past?

Are you talking about the stage 1 trials? Because if you were talking about the last few weeks, I would have agreed with you. Last few days, less so, but still agreed. Now I agree that the disconnect between certain players and developers has reached Looney Tunes levels. Those players are a few misguided souls on here complaining about less than ten fights they have to do to achieve the ultimate weapon in a class (give or take). Pretty much everyone I knew was outraged about the fake trial numbers. Most people I knew were still unhappy about the reduced numbers. Now, no one I know is really complaining, aside from the occasional "meh" comment. That shows me, that everyone has calmed down and realized that this trial, in its current form, is more than doable. The fact that some people, now, of all times, go and proclaim the developers lack of common sense (after they've reduced the trial first by 95% and then again by another 75%) really makes them hard to take seriously.

Both trials are simply irresponsible.

You're fixed on this 5 kills thing but what of an LS with numerous relics? 5 kills per person gets out of hand quickly and turns Dynamis from the semi-casual event it is now to "grind Dynamis-Xarc only for months". What of a person who plays casually, finished a relic and now seeks 99? How will they manage to get anywhere in this trial? Shout? Hah.

The people who have calmed down have done what happens in most cases in this game: accepted the devs are clueless morons who know very little of the game their tasked to upkeep and develop. I'm not a fan of insulting the devs but they seriously make it all too easy when they say one thing, do another and think no one is going to call them on the non-existent logic.

I admit that stage 2 numbers are an entirely different topic. And tbh, I don't even know what the current state of those is... are they gonna be adjusted like the first stage was? Or were they, and I missed it? Somehow I find it hard to believe that SE would lower the stage 1 trials to an almost generous amount (by their standards) yet leave the stage 2 trials untouched. I almost expect them to lower those as well, because I doubt anyone would be willing to do the amount equal to 100 normal Lv99 relics for an underwhelming afterglow effect.

The stage2 trials by right shouldn't even exist because it's irresponsible and goes against the 'word to the players' that you're forced to go through every time you log in. Beyond that, the fact the stage 2 is only marginally better shows that even when it comes to the 'ultimate' years-long grind SE can't even deliver on that front.

Years of work and you get a weak sphere that doesn't affect you, a 'glow' and personal satisfaction? lol.

Again, aside from a handful of people here I don't see anyone raging anymore. And it's hardly bait and switch, you're just reading intentions into their actions again. They were probably disappointed by what they let relics become. Ever since they were introduced relics were the symbol for ultimate achievement. What they did to Neodynamis was not so everyone could farm their relics in a few months (I'm pretty sure that's another development they didn't consider in advance), it was a reaction to the way empyreans knocked them off their throne. Giving the state of the game at that point, which was big LS fractioned into small parties, they wanted to make them more accessible as a trade-off for the lack of power.

How is it not bait and switch when they clearly release Emps as 'casual' relics then ramp up 1500 plates and 60 VW items which comes out to more than a relic costs? You're a casual player, manage to smash out your Emp and then once Abyssea's curtain falls you dropped on your head in a sea of 100k plates and 500k-3m dross/cinder. Yeah, thats definitely how you keep logging in, frustrate the fuck outta them.

"What they let relics become?" Newsflash, this game is aging and even under current Dynamis conditions relics are still quite a bit of work to complete for your average joe going in with a friend/2box. Why would you change course when the base is happy with the current state of Dynamis? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Is the dev team schizophrenic? One day they ease restrictions then the next day BAM time to make those customers pay for having fun. None of it makes a lick of sense.

They're not stupid, they knew making Dynamis what it is today would make relics easier yet somehow it was unforseen? This trial just seems like a knee-jerk with no attention paid to the current state of FFXI.

However, these days things are more balanced. For some weapon classes, relics are better, for others mythics, for others empyreans. So for the ultimate upgrade, they wanted the game to return on its former path. And they didn't even go that far. Hell, even 20 ADL drops was still better than what used to be considered "normal" back in the day, now 5 is really nothing anyone can complain about.

Players keep saying across all languages do not take FFXI back to the old days of brutality because a more wise/aged base simply isn't up for that and yet again SE fails to grasp it. Sure, you'll have people that take the craziest shit head on and complete 99s but is that worth losing people in a declining game? You'd think SE gives a damn about the happiness of their base but the faulty logic and pointless 'difficulty' factors just boggles the mind.

[Insaniac]

5 IS A SMALLER NUMBER STOP COMPLAINING!!!

It's not the difficulty of the trial it's the content and the bottleneck that it creates inside groups of people who want to work together to complete it. The sad thing is I bet the devs are sitting around with trollfaces saying the exact same thing as these people who aren't even understanding a majority of our posts.

The problem with ADL trials is not the time it would take for an individual to complete them. It's the fact that you need to be a selfish, self centered, greedy, asshole to not get stuck killing ADL 20-150 times. Raise the number required and add the drops to normal low man dynamis content.

[Geabrielle]

So because you have friends willing to repeat this mob for you at no gain to them (from the run itself), the trial is fine? Selfish much?

tl;dr ...

Or rather, that I have friends willing to do this with the confidence that their help will be reciprocated is difficult to believe. Large scale events eventually crumbled for a myriad of reasons of which selfish jerks were the greatest perpetrators. Now that individualism and multi-accounts have been bumped up into the 'ruling division' of getting things accomplished the return to a larger scale is a crimp in their stride and thus unwelcome. I'm willing to bet this is mostly because of the bridges burned from previous assholishness. Sucks to be them.

[Vold]

5 should make all linkshell people breathe a lot easier. 250 is the new number for stage 2, 75% off just like stage 1. Calling it now. Possibly 300 just 'cause. BTW not surprised a few more joined the "Stage 1 is Cool" club. You fell hook, line, and sinker for "it"

It's pretty obvious these trials are a done deal. Only thing left for us to do really is either take it and do them or don't do them at all. Whether the number is 1 or 100 drops, or kills, ADL for stage 1 is a done deal. Poor relics. You had it so good until now. Now you got some punk high level NM to go through for level 99. Where's lv75 content when you need it!

[Nala]

There was nothing wrong with the PW trial then, at 10 items needed with the zeni/picture boost, it was fine, regardless of the fact that mythic weapons required giving their first born. The revised zeni was more than sufficient to make getting 10 PW pops a decent trial...maybe it wouldnt be finished in a week, but the difficulty scale was rather low.


The problem was, and still is, the relic trial. Cutting it down to 5 doesnt change the fact that its still the hardest trial by a decent margin. Break it down by manhours required, I'll copy what I wrote on another forum (though I'm gonna fix up some stuff since I wrote that on my phone):

ADL: realistically, with needing PD to kill adl, you can do one per run. For best chance of success, you should bring 18, so if youre wrong on the first set of clones, you can still kill the second set of clones. So you're already looking at 36 manhours per adl attempt. With a 75% kill rate factoring in the luck garbage, youre looking at about 7 adl attempts for 5 marrows. 36x7 is 252 manhours per relic 99, with marginal gains to those just helping. Everything must be coordinated with the schedule of 18 others.

PW: Requires approx 7 gamedays of zeni turnin at proposed 10x value. The picture taking should take 30 min for each days worth of pictures..maybe, been a while. The legwork can be 2boxd up to the tier 4s...and maybe the t4s as well. Presume 2 hours per t1-t2-t3 kill factoring in running time (im being generous) and 30 min for the T4, so 7 manhours per t4 x3 is 21 hours per pw set. Theres some complications since you can turn in pictures while getting new pop items...sooooo 21 hours per pw set of nms, 2 hours of picture taking, 30x18 minutes to kill pw.
...
30min*18*3 to kill all 3 PW's = 27 manhours
7 manhours per t4 set * 3 sets * 3 PW pop items = 63 manhours
add in 2 hours of picture taking (I dont remember when I mentally calculated it if this was for 1 PW set or 3...lets presume 1) x3 = 6 manhours

96 manhours to farm from 0 to 3 PW kills, with only 27 manhours requiring scheduling corrdination vs 252 manhours for 5 ADL kills requiring full scheduling coordination throughout.


thats not balance, especially considering you want the relic trials to be easier

Damn i was just thinking about bringing up the whole man hours aspect too damn you nynja, also you put a bit more of a complex analysis then i would have. either way while i don't feel as full on rage mode about this trial anymore the dev team's still off their rocker.

[Camiie]

Sorry for being ignorant here, but do we know for a fact the drop rates on the 99 trial items yet? Do we know them to be 100%? I just want to be clear.

[Nynja]

People have killed ADL and PW...its 1 item at 100%. Unless SE ninja changes something, but at this point, it would probably be in their better interests to announce a change in drop locale.