Ok...let me level with you here SE...

[Nynja]

While I don't agree with swapping of the item numbers (the overall road of Mythic is much longer and more annoying than Relic was, so I can see why they cut Mythic-wielders some slack), I support the idea of 1-2 Marrows with 1 being 100%. And at the very least, half that concept should apply to PW in that his Mulcibar's Scoria should be 100%.

There was nothing wrong with the PW trial then, at 10 items needed with the zeni/picture boost, it was fine, regardless of the fact that mythic weapons required giving their first born. The revised zeni was more than sufficient to make getting 10 PW pops a decent trial...maybe it wouldnt be finished in a week, but the difficulty scale was rather low.


The problem was, and still is, the relic trial. Cutting it down to 5 doesnt change the fact that its still the hardest trial by a decent margin. Break it down by manhours required, I'll copy what I wrote on another forum (though I'm gonna fix up some stuff since I wrote that on my phone):

ADL: realistically, with needing PD to kill adl, you can do one per run. For best chance of success, you should bring 18, so if youre wrong on the first set of clones, you can still kill the second set of clones. So you're already looking at 36 manhours per adl attempt. With a 75% kill rate factoring in the luck garbage, youre looking at about 7 adl attempts for 5 marrows. 36x7 is 252 manhours per relic 99, with marginal gains to those just helping. Everything must be coordinated with the schedule of 18 others.

PW: Requires approx 7 gamedays of zeni turnin at proposed 10x value. The picture taking should take 30 min for each days worth of pictures..maybe, been a while. The legwork can be 2boxd up to the tier 4s...and maybe the t4s as well. Presume 2 hours per t1-t2-t3 kill factoring in running time (im being generous) and 30 min for the T4, so 7 manhours per t4 x3 is 21 hours per pw set. Theres some complications since you can turn in pictures while getting new pop items...sooooo 21 hours per pw set of nms, 2 hours of picture taking, 30x18 minutes to kill pw.
...
30min*18*3 to kill all 3 PW's = 27 manhours
7 manhours per t4 set * 3 sets * 3 PW pop items = 63 manhours
add in 2 hours of picture taking (I dont remember when I mentally calculated it if this was for 1 PW set or 3...lets presume 1) x3 = 6 manhours

96 manhours to farm from 0 to 3 PW kills, with only 27 manhours requiring scheduling corrdination vs 252 manhours for 5 ADL kills requiring full scheduling coordination throughout.


thats not balance, especially considering you want the relic trials to be easier

[CordeliaAzalan]

There was nothing wrong with the PW trial then, at 10 items needed with the zeni/picture boost, it was fine, regardless of the fact that mythic weapons required giving their first born. The revised zeni was more than sufficient to make getting 10 PW pops a decent trial...maybe it wouldnt be finished in a week, but the difficulty scale was rather low.

Hmm, that's true that the increased zeni will aid in procuring a popset for PW, but it's still a decent amount of mobs you have to fight for that. At best, it'll take 12 mobs scattered across various zones to get you the 3 colored seals for a PW item, whereas ADL's is 5 mobs in the same zone. Granted, those 12 are still easier due to being lower level, it'll still take a longer period of time to get to all 12; that's where my concern of making the 1 Scoria 100% comes from.

[Nynja]

Hmm, that's true that the increased zeni will aid in procuring a popset for PW, but it's still a decent amount of mobs you have to fight for that. At best, it'll take 12 mobs scattered across various zones to get you the 3 colored seals for a PW item, whereas ADL's is 5 mobs in the same zone. Granted, those 12 are still easier due to being lower level, it'll still take a longer period of time to get to all 12; that's where my concern of making the 1 Scoria 100% comes from.

All of those mobs, up to and possibly including the t4 NM's, can all be done by someone 2boxing with relatively little difficulty.

There is no point there. People will do ADL, for it. People will help others with it. People have always gone to far greater lengths to help friends and LS members out than about ten less than two hour long events, spread out over a an arbitrary length of time. And it will be done again.

And during that time, those people, while helping out, were also gaining stuff on their end...either via loot or LS points to become #1 on said loot.

Again, aside from a handful of people here I don't see anyone raging anymore.

cuz they've been temp/perma banned for being unable to convey their rage in a somewhat polite manner.

[Creelo]

Hmm, that's true that the increased zeni will aid in procuring a popset for PW, but it's still a decent amount of mobs you have to fight for that. At best, it'll take 12 mobs scattered across various zones to get you the 3 colored seals for a PW item, whereas ADL's is 5 mobs in the same zone. Granted, those 12 are still easier due to being lower level, it'll still take a longer period of time to get to all 12; that's where my concern of making the 1 Scoria 100% comes from.

There's hardly a time constaint though with getting Zeni. You can easily get the pop items/Zeni on your own time.

This is not the case with the Relic Trial. You'll have less than 2 Hours a day to get one ADL done (since 2hrs are used on ADL, you won't really be able to do more unless you bring in several Cor Mules or something lol). This cannot be done on your own or with just a few; you'll want a full Alliance for ADL.

If they do anything else, I really think they should at least let ADL's clones drop 1 Marrow as well. The description of the Umbral Marrow itself seems to match this idea as well. "A piceous substance made of pure shadow condensed into liquid form."

If SE were to do this, I would have much less of a problem with this trial because even if the ADL Run were to fail, you should be able to at least kill one of ADL's shadows.

[Nala]

There was nothing wrong with the PW trial then, at 10 items needed with the zeni/picture boost, it was fine, regardless of the fact that mythic weapons required giving their first born. The revised zeni was more than sufficient to make getting 10 PW pops a decent trial...maybe it wouldnt be finished in a week, but the difficulty scale was rather low.


The problem was, and still is, the relic trial. Cutting it down to 5 doesnt change the fact that its still the hardest trial by a decent margin. Break it down by manhours required, I'll copy what I wrote on another forum (though I'm gonna fix up some stuff since I wrote that on my phone):

ADL: realistically, with needing PD to kill adl, you can do one per run. For best chance of success, you should bring 18, so if youre wrong on the first set of clones, you can still kill the second set of clones. So you're already looking at 36 manhours per adl attempt. With a 75% kill rate factoring in the luck garbage, youre looking at about 7 adl attempts for 5 marrows. 36x7 is 252 manhours per relic 99, with marginal gains to those just helping. Everything must be coordinated with the schedule of 18 others.

PW: Requires approx 7 gamedays of zeni turnin at proposed 10x value. The picture taking should take 30 min for each days worth of pictures..maybe, been a while. The legwork can be 2boxd up to the tier 4s...and maybe the t4s as well. Presume 2 hours per t1-t2-t3 kill factoring in running time (im being generous) and 30 min for the T4, so 7 manhours per t4 x3 is 21 hours per pw set. Theres some complications since you can turn in pictures while getting new pop items...sooooo 21 hours per pw set of nms, 2 hours of picture taking, 30x18 minutes to kill pw.
...
30min*18*3 to kill all 3 PW's = 27 manhours
7 manhours per t4 set * 3 sets * 3 PW pop items = 63 manhours
add in 2 hours of picture taking (I dont remember when I mentally calculated it if this was for 1 PW set or 3...lets presume 1) x3 = 6 manhours

96 manhours to farm from 0 to 3 PW kills, with only 27 manhours requiring scheduling corrdination vs 252 manhours for 5 ADL kills requiring full scheduling coordination throughout.


thats not balance, especially considering you want the relic trials to be easier

Damn i was just thinking about bringing up the whole man hours aspect too damn you nynja, also you put a bit more of a complex analysis then i would have. either way while i don't feel as full on rage mode about this trial anymore the dev team's still off their rocker.