Ok...let me level with you here SE...

[Cream_Soda]

LOL man I wasn't going to say anything earlier.

1000 to 20, ppl still whine.

20 to 5, people still crying?






I have an idea, SE should just make an NPC where you can trade your 95 relic and he'll give you the 99 version w/ afterglow in exchange

[Rezeak]

I have an idea, SE should just make an NPC where you can trade your 95 relic and he'll give you the 99 version w/ afterglow in exchange

while i'm guessing your joking but i feel they should of done this just as a Thank you to all those who invested so much time and money in the game.

w/ mythic they should give ya 5k alexandrite back as a form of saying sorry for being so harsh on you.

[Sparthos]

LOL man I wasn't going to say anything earlier.

1000 to 20, ppl still whine.

20 to 5, people still crying?






I have an idea, SE should just make an NPC where you can trade your 95 relic and he'll give you the 99 version w/ afterglow in exchange

Cream, cmon lets be serious here - this isn't unjustified whining.

No one does ADL and after the patch that makes this stuff live no one will still do ADL. What incentive does anyone have to help a relic-holder finish this trial that eats an entire Dynamis run up and allows for a single kill at ADL? ADL doesn't even drop a single 100pc at a 100% rate and his gear is situational at best.

So ADL'll in most cases only drop marrow which is laughable given the effort expended to accomplish this feat. SE says "most people will finish" a 99 then turns around and makes a trial that not only compels people to tier relics (Guttler isn't worth 5 ADLs gtfo BST) but also encourages people to do something for nothing.

In typical SE fashion they haven't even decided to sweeten the pot. Throw in some heavy metal pouches? Some shots at multiple hundred pieces? A shot at any of the glowing weapons? Something? This is just your typical raw grind backed with voodoo speak, half-truths and delusions of balance from SE.

Who the hell cares about stage2? The person that hammers out that trial will have mush for brains once they manage to finally finish. Good to know SE doesn't give a fuck about the 'word to the players' they tote around.

[Cream_Soda]

Cream, cmon lets be serious here - this isn't unjustified whining.

No one does ADL and after the patch that makes this stuff live no one will still do ADL. What incentive does anyone have to help a relic-holder finish this trial that eats an entire Dynamis run up and allows for a single kill at ADL? ADL doesn't even drop a single 100pc at a 100% rate and his gear is situational at best.

So ADL'll in most cases only drop marrow which is laughable given the effort expended to accomplish this feat. SE says "most people will finish" a 99 then turns around and makes a trial that not only compels people to tier relics (Guttler isn't worth 5 ADLs gtfo BST) but also encourages people to do something for nothing.

In typical SE fashion they haven't even decided to sweeten the pot. Throw in some heavy metal pouches? Some shots at multiple hundred pieces? A shot at any of the glowing weapons? Something? This is just your typical raw grind backed with voodoo speak, half-truths and delusions of balance from SE.

Who the hell cares about stage2? The person that hammers out that trial will have mush for brains once they manage to finally finish. Good to know SE doesn't give a fuck about the 'word to the players' they tote around.

20, sure not unjustified.

5? They're not just gonna hand it to you.

And it's not just the complaining, it's the whole "omg if it's not easy to get the absolute best weapons in the game, I'm quitting" threats that make me lol

[Rezeak]

5? They're not just gonna hand it to you.

And it's not just the complaining, it's the whole "omg if it's not easy to get the absolute best weapons in the game, I'm quitting" threats that make me lol

5 is still bad tho if i could upgrade my relic w/ 60 riftcinder/dross i'd rather do that cause at least i can kill the VW mobs 20 times a day and save gil to buy them.

Either way the difficult they wanted was Emp (hardest) > Relic > Mythic (easiest)

As it is atm it is Relic >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mythic = Emp.

If we could exchange Riftcinder/dross for Umbral marrow (iono 10 for 1) just as a way of making it so relic will not be as hard as Emps.

Like they said they wanted most players to be able to obtain them which will never be the case while the drops are linked to Arch Dyna lord.

[Brolic]

20, sure not unjustified.

5? They're not just gonna hand it to you.

No one handed me a relic(well my shell did) but still no one did. it's not like they're putting hard on top of free. they're putting hard on what was at the time a multi-year commitment.

[Sparthos]

20, sure not unjustified.

5? They're not just gonna hand it to you.

And it's not just the complaining, it's the whole "omg if it's not easy to get the absolute best weapons in the game, I'm quitting" threats that make me lol

It could be 2 and the point still stands that no one does ADL, ADL takes too many bodies to be practical and this trial will be the death of weapons people generally associate with inferiority like Axe, Polearm, Club or Staff.

I don't expect SE to hand people these weapons done with afterglows but really the disconnect between player and developer has reached Looney Tunes levels here.

A trial to simply kill every Arch Boss once would have been enough here to be challenging while still allowing the usual relicholders to band together and plow through the trials together. 10 days of no money runs to finish every relic you/your PUG has. This sounds fair and actually forces people to do content that has been dead-on-arrival since Neo Dynamis launched.

It's also pretty obvious ADL needs some adjustments as a roulette of win or lose is about as dumb as content can get. No matter how skilled you are, you're bound by a zerg timer? Yawn.

The JP are bitching as furiously as the NA because this is classic bait 'n switch. Make dynamis easy, encourage lowman relics, design trials up to 99 that require few people then BAM 99 needs a full alliance/linkshell + full Dynamis run for ONE person? lol.

[Arcon]

It could be 2 and the point still stands that no one does ADL

There is no point there. People will do ADL, for it. People will help others with it. People have always gone to far greater lengths to help friends and LS members out than about ten less than two hour long events, spread out over a an arbitrary length of time. And it will be done again.

I don't expect SE to hand people these weapons done with afterglows but really the disconnect between player and developer has reached Looney Tunes levels here.

Are you talking about the stage 1 trials? Because if you were talking about the last few weeks, I would have agreed with you. Last few days, less so, but still agreed. Now I agree that the disconnect between certain players and developers has reached Looney Tunes levels. Those players are a few misguided souls on here complaining about less than ten fights they have to do to achieve the ultimate weapon in a class (give or take). Pretty much everyone I knew was outraged about the fake trial numbers. Most people I knew were still unhappy about the reduced numbers. Now, no one I know is really complaining, aside from the occasional "meh" comment. That shows me, that everyone has calmed down and realized that this trial, in its current form, is more than doable. The fact that some people, now, of all times, go and proclaim the developers lack of common sense (after they've reduced the trial first by 95% and then again by another 75%) really makes them hard to take seriously.

I admit that stage 2 numbers are an entirely different topic. And tbh, I don't even know what the current state of those is... are they gonna be adjusted like the first stage was? Or were they, and I missed it? Somehow I find it hard to believe that SE would lower the stage 1 trials to an almost generous amount (by their standards) yet leave the stage 2 trials untouched. I almost expect them to lower those as well, because I doubt anyone would be willing to do the amount equal to 100 normal Lv99 relics for an underwhelming afterglow effect.

The JP are bitching as furiously as the NA because this is classic bait 'n switch. Make dynamis easy, encourage lowman relics, design trials up to 99 that require few people then BAM 99 needs a full alliance/linkshell + full Dynamis run for ONE person? lol.

Again, aside from a handful of people here I don't see anyone raging anymore. And it's hardly bait and switch, you're just reading intentions into their actions again. They were probably disappointed by what they let relics become. Ever since they were introduced relics were the symbol for ultimate achievement. What they did to Neodynamis was not so everyone could farm their relics in a few months (I'm pretty sure that's another development they didn't consider in advance), it was a reaction to the way empyreans knocked them off their throne. Giving the state of the game at that point, which was big LS fractioned into small parties, they wanted to make them more accessible as a trade-off for the lack of power.

However, these days things are more balanced. For some weapon classes, relics are better, for others mythics, for others empyreans. So for the ultimate upgrade, they wanted the game to return on its former path. And they didn't even go that far. Hell, even 20 ADL drops was still better than what used to be considered "normal" back in the day, now 5 is really nothing anyone can complain about.

[Sparthos]

There is no point there. People will do ADL, for it. People will help others with it. People have always gone to far greater lengths to help friends and LS members out than about ten less than two hour long events, spread out over a an arbitrary length of time. And it will be done again.

Arcon, buddy we're in 2012 and this game isn't what it used to be at the height of LS runs. Abyssea changed things, behaviors changed over time and the game has shifted from gearing one man on the backs of many to mutual benefit in events like Abyssea, Voidwatch, Walk of Echoes and soon Legion. This was all SEs doing yet they somehow reached the conclusion to pull something from the 2007 closet.

This trial sticks out like a sore thumb, a festering gash, a stinky gym sock from the days of FFXI long past. While some LS still relish in gearing dear leader at any cost most people are simply not going to be willing to join a group to gear up some schmuck with a 99 relic with no gain.

SE has been so adamant about 'fairness' and then they go around and then release content like this where 1 person gains and 17 lose. Beyond the usual SE statements we have a term for the current actions and it's called 'flip flopping'. Perhaps Tanaka should get into politics. What is it? Fair play to the extreme or the pyramid schemes of FFXI past?

Are you talking about the stage 1 trials? Because if you were talking about the last few weeks, I would have agreed with you. Last few days, less so, but still agreed. Now I agree that the disconnect between certain players and developers has reached Looney Tunes levels. Those players are a few misguided souls on here complaining about less than ten fights they have to do to achieve the ultimate weapon in a class (give or take). Pretty much everyone I knew was outraged about the fake trial numbers. Most people I knew were still unhappy about the reduced numbers. Now, no one I know is really complaining, aside from the occasional "meh" comment. That shows me, that everyone has calmed down and realized that this trial, in its current form, is more than doable. The fact that some people, now, of all times, go and proclaim the developers lack of common sense (after they've reduced the trial first by 95% and then again by another 75%) really makes them hard to take seriously.

Both trials are simply irresponsible.

You're fixed on this 5 kills thing but what of an LS with numerous relics? 5 kills per person gets out of hand quickly and turns Dynamis from the semi-casual event it is now to "grind Dynamis-Xarc only for months". What of a person who plays casually, finished a relic and now seeks 99? How will they manage to get anywhere in this trial? Shout? Hah.

The people who have calmed down have done what happens in most cases in this game: accepted the devs are clueless morons who know very little of the game their tasked to upkeep and develop. I'm not a fan of insulting the devs but they seriously make it all too easy when they say one thing, do another and think no one is going to call them on the non-existent logic.

I admit that stage 2 numbers are an entirely different topic. And tbh, I don't even know what the current state of those is... are they gonna be adjusted like the first stage was? Or were they, and I missed it? Somehow I find it hard to believe that SE would lower the stage 1 trials to an almost generous amount (by their standards) yet leave the stage 2 trials untouched. I almost expect them to lower those as well, because I doubt anyone would be willing to do the amount equal to 100 normal Lv99 relics for an underwhelming afterglow effect.

The stage2 trials by right shouldn't even exist because it's irresponsible and goes against the 'word to the players' that you're forced to go through every time you log in. Beyond that, the fact the stage 2 is only marginally better shows that even when it comes to the 'ultimate' years-long grind SE can't even deliver on that front.

Years of work and you get a weak sphere that doesn't affect you, a 'glow' and personal satisfaction? lol.

Again, aside from a handful of people here I don't see anyone raging anymore. And it's hardly bait and switch, you're just reading intentions into their actions again. They were probably disappointed by what they let relics become. Ever since they were introduced relics were the symbol for ultimate achievement. What they did to Neodynamis was not so everyone could farm their relics in a few months (I'm pretty sure that's another development they didn't consider in advance), it was a reaction to the way empyreans knocked them off their throne. Giving the state of the game at that point, which was big LS fractioned into small parties, they wanted to make them more accessible as a trade-off for the lack of power.

How is it not bait and switch when they clearly release Emps as 'casual' relics then ramp up 1500 plates and 60 VW items which comes out to more than a relic costs? You're a casual player, manage to smash out your Emp and then once Abyssea's curtain falls you dropped on your head in a sea of 100k plates and 500k-3m dross/cinder. Yeah, thats definitely how you keep logging in, frustrate the fuck outta them.

"What they let relics become?" Newsflash, this game is aging and even under current Dynamis conditions relics are still quite a bit of work to complete for your average joe going in with a friend/2box. Why would you change course when the base is happy with the current state of Dynamis? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Is the dev team schizophrenic? One day they ease restrictions then the next day BAM time to make those customers pay for having fun. None of it makes a lick of sense.

They're not stupid, they knew making Dynamis what it is today would make relics easier yet somehow it was unforseen? This trial just seems like a knee-jerk with no attention paid to the current state of FFXI.

However, these days things are more balanced. For some weapon classes, relics are better, for others mythics, for others empyreans. So for the ultimate upgrade, they wanted the game to return on its former path. And they didn't even go that far. Hell, even 20 ADL drops was still better than what used to be considered "normal" back in the day, now 5 is really nothing anyone can complain about.

Players keep saying across all languages do not take FFXI back to the old days of brutality because a more wise/aged base simply isn't up for that and yet again SE fails to grasp it. Sure, you'll have people that take the craziest shit head on and complete 99s but is that worth losing people in a declining game? You'd think SE gives a damn about the happiness of their base but the faulty logic and pointless 'difficulty' factors just boggles the mind.

[Camiie]

LOL man I wasn't going to say anything earlier.

Yeah, it's usually best to go with your first instinct.

1000 to 20, ppl still whine.

20 to 5, people still crying?

I have an idea, SE should just make an NPC where you can trade your 95 relic and he'll give you the 99 version w/ afterglow in exchange

Oh, well that's original. Yes, if any level of difficulty is shaved off of anything it's akin to mailing people free relics, infinite gil, and/or a Primeval Brew dispenser on a 5 second cooldown. I've never heard anything like that before. No sir. We've certainly broken new ground here. I'm not sure what's more impressive, your cleverness or your Dragonball picture collection.