Ok...let me level with you here SE...

[Rezeak]

The development team had looked into changing the trial requirements in this way; however, for a variety of reasons they decided it would be better to not make this change. The biggest reason for this decision is that it was explained previously on the forum that the basis for stage 1 enhancements would be item collection and their thinking is that as long as there are people who have already started collecting these items, it would be best not to change the trial.

Really think that this stops them adding an alternate path to stage 1... no it doesn't

Basically 20 ADL kills should be the max of what people should be required to do meaning it should either be 1-2 items or 20 kills (if you have both paths available then u could have 5-10 items)

REALLY IT SHOULD WORK LIKE THIS THO

Stage 1 = 20 kills of ADL
Stage 2 = 100 ADL items

So that stage 1 feeds stage 2

Basically every relic user could get there stage 1 99 version and there would be around 1 stage 2 for every 150-200 relics which is exactly what you want right SE.

While this is the most clear option there are plenty of alternate way you can choose to fix this....

2000 coins = X U.marrow u need to complete stage 1.
U.marrow to drop of all NMs
M.trail neck that for 10k exp in Dyna = 1 U.marrow.

As for Mythics

Stage 1 : 1-2 PW kills (i'd go with 1 here cause the fight is v/ job specific)
Stage 2 : 10 PW items

Emps

Stage 1 : Kill any T6 X 30
Stage 2 :Riftxxxxx X 100-200

EIther way as for not playing FFXIV if ya add this or not ..... well i'm not gonna play it anyway cause i will never play another MMO made by SE while i enjoyed FFXI it focused tooo much on repeating the same stuff X10000.

but if you listen and make the trails relative then i'll prolly be playing FFXI for 2-3 more years to make more relic/mythic/emps since they don't take 1-2 years to get 99 (stage 1)

[Shadowsong]

This just pretty much sums up why anyone who has played XI will not buy any more Square Enix products for like, ever.
Anyone up for some Tales of Vesperia?

[Elgorian]

Anyone up for some Tales of Vesperia?

Love that game, and majority of tales games. ^^



On-Topic:

REALLY IT SHOULD WORK LIKE THIS THO

[COLOR="#4169e1"]Stage 1 = 20 kills of ADL
Stage 2 = 100 ADL items

So that stage 1 feeds stage 2

I completely agree with this, 100 items may seem a little high though, but the idea is in the right place. Stage 1 should be kills while the harder to complete should be the items themselves.

This way person A) 99 Stage 1 can farm pops and get person B) 95 to come and help out and it's pretty much win/win for both parties.

I think the whole reason people are BS'ing over these trials is.... the items are the exact same for both which is just not right. These relics/mythics/maybe not so much emps, are weapons of power, and the relics/mythics have more background to them through quests etc. maybe give these weapons a bit more depth with some kind of quest or storyline to go through for stage 1? Give our weapons a bit more depth before just jumping into the grind for 1000000000000000 items.

We've been doing these crazy collect X number of item trials since abyssea came out, and honestly we want something new, something unique. We want... new content. As awesome as the ADL is (yeaaaaa......right) what are we really accomplishing by just spamming him over and over and over and over? Are we proving that we're awesome players?! No not really. Maybe after a fight or two, but honestly after the 100th fight it really does just get......boring.

But where I stand on this:

Stage 1: NEEDS SERIOUS REVISIONS on the Relic/Mythic side at least, I don't want the exact same items used for stage 2 to be used for stage 1

Stage 2: Honestly sucks, but hey Stage 2 isn't supposed to be obtainable by "most players"

Might be somewhat redundent but the more people that speak out the better... or at least I'd like to think so.... SE -.-

[Helel]

You (devs) realize that you've invariably made relics the hardest weapons to upgrade? Camate posted your thought process of mythic > relic > empyrean, when in fact it is empyrean > mythic > relic (mythics may be easier than empyrean with zeni buff). But my point is that relics are so much more difficult than either mythic or empyrean; how could you ever fathom them being easier to upgrade than empyreans? Rift items are an absolute joke to get.

How is it fair that relic users can only farm items for their upgrade 2 hours a day when empyrean users can spam VWNMs all day long? It's almost guaranteed that at least one person out of the 18 will get 1 rift item, and since you seem to have no problem forcing people to lot over a single item (ADL drop), how is this any different from allowing those that receive rift items to give them to a single person until everyone completes their empyrean weapon. Basically what I'm saying is, assuming that only person is receiving the drop (like PW or ADL), empyrean users will only need to kill 20-60 VWNMs for each weapon. The difficulty of this upgrade is so far below relics that you'd have to be delusional to think otherwise.

[Muras]

Greetings!

I asked the development team about the possibility of changing the trial requirements from collecting specific items to straight up kills of the specific notorious monster, since there were quite a lot of comments regarding this topic.

Awesome, much appriciated as always.

The development team had looked into changing the trial requirements in this way; however, for a variety of reasons they decided it would be better to not make this change. The biggest reason for this decision is that it was explained previously on the forum that the basis for stage 1 enhancements would be item collection and their thinking is that as long as there are people who have already started collecting these items, it would be best not to change the trial.

Also, there is quite a difference in between item collection and kills. For item trials, in an 18 person fight, one person will receive an item. Whereas for a trial requirement involving a specific number of kills, in an 18 person fight, all 18 people would receive the kill credit. While it’s not really as simple as multiplying it 18 times, since the basic thinking would be that the kill count should be greater than the number of items, in the event that we were to change the trial requirements from item collection to kills, there is a high possibility that the number would rise significantly.

Currently since we are only looking into devising the appropriate number of items to collect, I am not going to be able to tell you an estimate of how many kills it would take, but please know that there would most likely be a huge gap between the numbers.

Then don't change the trial, just add alternative trials to reach the same result. Most people here would like a trial that can be done with 3-6 people or so. The small minority gets their weapon because they've been working on it already. The majority of people who haven't started (And can't gather an army at their command) can start their own unique trial that, while likely just as time consuming or even more so, can still get their weapon in the end as well. There's two important points:

1) It's win-win, the devs excuse is nonsense. We can make both work.
2) We know we can have two trials that lead to the same result, as seen with relic armor +2.

So please, ask the devs to stop lying and tell us the real reason why they're making the trial like this. That is unless, of course, they actually believe this nonsense themselves.

Also, why do they care about the amount of weapons that're 99 compared to 95 ones? What difference does it make other than some extra stats? Why does it matter if the number significantly rises? I'd especially like to know the devs thoughts on this question, so please Camate, if you could.

Even -one- item to collect off Arch Dynamis Lord is asking for a whole lot. Their player base has changed... The devs must realise this.

[Runespider]

I think the problem is they are trying to run 2-3 mmos now and they don't have the resources to do it, as such they are making these horrible massive time sink crap that's going to make the playerbase of all their games ragequit.

I put up with this crap in the past with salvage etc but after the fun I had with Abyssea and at this stage of the games life, this crap isn't going to fly. Everything since Abyssea has been crap ontop of more crap ontop of more crap, I'm really angry they are ruining a game I love so much. It's sad that they make horrible decisions and they never listen, never learn and keep pumping out more of it. Legion is going to be such a pile of crap, even if it's fun the drop system will make VW rage seem like a walk in the park. They are just so set in their ideal of punishing us all as players, maybe it's punishment for us all not loving 14 and him getting fired...idk.

The reposnses are madening because it's like talking to someone that refuses to listen to you and just pushes their own ideas, not budging an inch away from them..no matter how much you try to plead with them.

The thing about worrying about people that already started the trials is garbage too, my relic made 4 years ago (that took me 2 years) got no such thoughts when they made them so much easier to get now. The amount of killshots I had to do on it at the begining just before they nerfed them to 1/4 of the amounts had similar attention to the work I put in, they don't care about who started the trial at all.

Nothing against Camate, since he is jsut the messenger but the devs are being frigging stupid and arrogant.

EIther way as for not playing FFXIV if ya add this or not ..... well i'm not gonna play it anyway cause i will never play another MMO made by SE while i enjoyed FFXI it focused tooo much on repeating the same stuff X10000.

This so much, after being punished for being a long time subscriber to their flagship MMO the way we are being here I don't know how anyone could ever considering playing any other MMO put out by Square. Unless you like being crapped on anyway.

[Byrth]

This post on FFXIAH has a useful solution that solves all the problems posed:

I think an easy fix for the weapons would be to leave the 99 trial as is, but hear me out.

To get to level 99 stage:
20 Umbral Marrow for Relics
10 Mulcibar's Scoria for Mythics
60 Riftdross/Riftcinder for Empyreans

To get the afterglow 99 stage: (these numbers are just random)
300 Arch Dynamis Lord Kills (Relic)
200 Pandemonium Warden Kills (Mythic)
??? for Empyrean (500 Riftcinder/Riftdross?)

I think formatting the trials this way would be much better than needing the same item for the 99 stage AND the afterglow stage. Even if they make it that you have to kill a ridiculous amount of ADL or PW for the afterglow stage, at least it will be more feasible. It would also encourage people who finish their 99 stage to help with more ADL and PW kills rather than just bail when they get their items. So that's my two cents.

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/28...es/16/#1737924

With this setup, people who have already obtained items for the 99 trial will not be punished, and those people (if there are any) who were going for the glow trial would be able to reclaim their gil. I would recommend 500 Ig-Alima or Botulus Rex kills for the Empyrean glow trial.

This would ensure a long-lasting and steady supply of the items that people need to upgrade to the NQ level 99 relic weapons.

[Damane]

I think the problem is they are trying to run 2-3 mmos now and they don't have the resources to do it, as such they are making these horrible massive time sink crap that's going to make the playerbase of all their games ragequit.

I put up with this crap in the past with salvage etc but after the fun I had with Abyssea and at this stage of the games life, this crap isn't going to fly. Everything since Abyssea has been crap ontop of more crap ontop of more crap, I'm really angry they are ruining a game I love so much. It's sad that they make horrible decisions and they never listen, never learn and keep pumping out more of it. Legion is going to be such a pile of crap, even if it's fun the drop system will make VW rage seem like a walk in the park. They are just so set in their ideal of punishing us all as players, maybe it's punishment for us all not loving 14 and him getting fired...idk.

The reposnses are madening because it's like talking to someone that refuses to listen to you and just pushes their own ideas, not budging an inch away from them..no matter how much you try to plead with them.

The thing about worrying about people that already started the trials is garbage too, my relic made 4 years ago (that took me 2 years) got no such thoughts when they made them so much easier to get now. The amount of killshots I had to do on it at the begining just before they nerfed them to 1/4 of the amounts had similar attention to the work I put in, they don't care about who started the trial at all.

Nothing against Camate, since he is jsut the messenger but the devs are being frigging stupid and arrogant.

Bolded for truth I am/was in the same boat

[Runespider]

It's also depressing to see how Yoshi and the 'new' XIV team are bending over backwards to try to listen and accommodate players' suggestions and criticisms as they [SE] work on XIV 2.0, while the XI team after a period a year or so back of apparently learning from the years of completely ignoring the XI playerbase and making many changes to XI to make it more 'user friendly' (and reaping much praise for their changed attitude), have now sunk back into their former deaf-to-the-players state.

FFXI had it's "listen to the playerbase" period too, no matter what the current lead of FFXIV is doing that can change in a blink of an eye, just as happened in XI when we got captain balance back. As FFXI players right now we are being punished for being loyal subscribers and being treated like crap, if you play, or plan to play any other SE MMO you better expect the same treatment. They don't value us, they just want to do as little work as possible to keep us paying them. That's what this trial is, we can understand a certain amount of this kind of content but when it's this blatant and obvious it's pretty disrespectful.

[Helel]

This post on FFXIAH has a useful solution that solves all the problems posed:

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/28...es/16/#1737924

With this setup, people who have already obtained items for the 99 trial will not be punished, and those people (if there are any) who were going for the glow trial would be able to reclaim their gil. I would recommend 500 Ig-Alima or Botulus Rex kills for the Empyrean glow trial.

This would ensure a long-lasting and steady supply of the items that people need to upgrade to the NQ level 99 relic weapons.

Unless someone is currently suffering from the largest brain tumor known to man, nobody is going to do the stage 2 trials. I want to say that there isn't a human being out there quite stupid enough to sacrifice so much gil (killing ADL instead of farming currency) to make their weapon glow, but maybe there is; and if there is, we'll all be able to see them glow so we can point and laugh and feel better about ourselves.