Ok...let me level with you here SE...

[Crysten]

I think you still cant understand that WHAT items are needed for trial went to LIVE server and only thing that was not ready and temporary at test server was Amount of those items require to upg. In which case only thing that I should risk is amount of those items I decide to gather before this temporary number will finally go live.
I also gathered Riftdross not marrows lol.

You all disagree because you are in those 99% that obviously want trial to be easier.
All I want to tell you is stop whining and start farming. I have items for 99 ready for a month now and I share all gils with my friend and we both have work (normal 5 days a week 8h). I farmed/got those dross between gathering coins for his 3rd relic so I have no idea how ppl can say its hard to gather 1500 HMP and 60 dross.
Relic trial is stupid but to fix it they should add more drops to ADL and maybe add one 100% drop from normal DL not change whole trial to something else.

Quit stroking your e-peen for a second and realize most people are complaining about the relic trials.

You got 1,500 HMPs and 60 Riftdross, well done; you've proven you're willing to put up with the crap the devs keep feeding us. Let us know when you finish afterglow so we can slap you for being as retarded as they are for actually supporting this content.

[Atoreis]

Quit stroking your e-peen for a second and realize most people are complaining about the relic trials.

You got 1,500 HMPs and 60 Riftdross, well done; you've proven you're willing to put up with the crap the devs keep feeding us. Let us know when you finish afterglow so we can slap you for being as retarded as they are for actually supporting this content.

Learn to read first or stop posting.

Whole part of my posts about Empyrean trial was an answer to other posts about Empyrean trial.
Whole part about relic trial was an answer to other posts about relic trial.

Idk how I should edit my posts so you and Nynja could see that I'm writing TWO different opinion about TWO different trials. Maybe I should write one part with Capslock and n other color? Lets try:

Items needed to upgrade Relic/Mythic/Empyreans went on live server and changing them will be a very bad move by SE which probably wont be done. Only thing that can be done is to make those items easier to get which SE is doing atm by adjusting zeni per photo. <- that was the part about Empyrean and Mythics

RELIC TRIAL WHICH IS VERY BAD ATM SHOULD BE FIXED BY ADJUSTING AMOUNT OF ITEMS THAT ADL CAN DROP (POUCHES FOR EXAMPLE LIKE SOMEONE SUGGESTED) OR ADD THOSE ITEMS TO OTHER MOBS LIKE ARCH BOSSES FROM OTHER DYNAMIS ZONES. STOP SUGGEST TO CHANGE WHOLE TRIAL BECAUSE SE WONT DO IT BECAUSE ITEMS ALREADY WENT TO LIVE SERVER AND THEY WONT BE CHANGED. INSTEAD SUGGEST A WAY TO MAKE THOSE ITEMS EASIER TO GET (OR WAYS TO REWARD PPL THAT NEED TO HELP YOU). <- That was a part about relic trial

I was writing the same thing now in several posts and I hope this time you can actually stop taking the lines that fill to your awesome answers and try to read and understand 100% of the post.

[Sparthos]

I think you still cant understand that WHAT items are needed for trial went to LIVE server and only thing that was not ready and temporary at test server was Amount of those items require to upg. In which case only thing that I should risk is amount of those items I decide to gather before this temporary number will finally go live.
I also gathered Riftdross not marrows lol.

You all disagree because you are in those 99% that obviously want trial to be easier.
All I want to tell you is stop whining and start farming. I have items for 99 ready for a month now and I share all gils with my friend and we both have work (normal 5 days a week 8h). I farmed/got those dross between gathering coins for his 3rd relic so I have no idea how ppl can say its hard to gather 1500 HMP and 60 dross.
Relic trial is stupid but to fix it they should add more drops to ADL and maybe add one 100% drop from normal DL not change whole trial to something else.

150M + 120M to finish an Emp isn't reasonable to most regardless of your ability to finish the trial beforehand. Now we know the exact number of cinder/dross to finish, the prices have skyrocketed to 1-3M/pc with cinder being rare because well.. Botulus Rex isn't exactly a walk in the park.

I can only imagine how much cinder will cost once desperate people start throwing money at it.

You also fail to realize you've got good resources in your friends that other people simply cannot match. Perhaps others friends quit, perhaps work schedule makes FFXI a 3-4hr/day experience, perhaps farming Dynamis daily to grind out coin doesn't sound ideal, perhaps some people have no friends or perhaps people don't care to buy a dualbox to play the game. Toss in the fact that soon new events will divert attention away from Voidwatch and you have a scenario where supply could plummet and prices skyrocket a la Alexandrite.

Maybe cinder/dross/plates will be Legion buyable. I wouldn't hold my breath though.

Bottom line is an emp shouldn't cost more than a relic when it was sold to the public as a casual weapon for people who don't care to make FFXI a fulltime grinding operation yet with the current prices it will outpace a relic just to get two trials done. Ridiculous.

SE being SE can't even be arsed to make HMPs 100%/kill which would still require 1500 kills in Voidwatch to complete a trial or drive the prices out of the stratosphere.

[Nynja]

Idk how I should edit my posts so you and Nynja could see that I'm writing TWO different opinion about TWO different trials. Maybe I should write one part with Capslock and n other color? Lets try:

So you're saying this is just about relics...

You all disagree because you are in those 99% that obviously want trial to be easier.
All I want to tell you is stop whining and start farming. I have items for 99 ready for a month now and I share all gils with my friend and we both have work (normal 5 days a week 8h).

you have 40 Umbral Marrows allready?!? Wait...you dont, you're talking about emps?
Then why are you telling everyone to "stop whining and start farming"? Oh, cause you're dumdum.

Items needed to upgrade Relic/Mythic/Empyreans went on live server and changing them will be a very bad move by SE which probably wont be done.

Are the trials on the live server? Oh...no they're not. Once again, all SE has confirmed so far is that those 4 items will be required for the final stage, not specifying if its for stage 1 or 2, because at the time of confirmation, there was no stage 1 and 2. SE has then made a secondary post, with temporary preliminary numbers, maybe to see how the players would react...and they've reacted REALLY bad. Not one person has said the emp trial of 60 rift's is bad, so why have you brought up the fact you have the items for the 99 emp upgrade 4 times in 3 posts?

Learn to read first or stop posting.
...
RELIC TRIAL WHICH IS VERY BAD ATM SHOULD BE FIXED BY ADJUSTING AMOUNT OF ITEMS THAT ADL CAN DROP (POUCHES FOR EXAMPLE LIKE SOMEONE SUGGESTED) OR ADD THOSE ITEMS TO OTHER MOBS LIKE ARCH BOSSES FROM OTHER DYNAMIS ZONES. STOP SUGGEST TO CHANGE WHOLE TRIAL BECAUSE SE WONT DO IT BECAUSE ITEMS ALREADY WENT TO LIVE SERVER AND THEY WONT BE CHANGED. INSTEAD SUGGEST A WAY TO MAKE THOSE ITEMS EASIER TO GET (OR WAYS TO REWARD PPL THAT NEED TO HELP YOU). <- That was a part about relic trial

Perhaps you should take your own advice and "learn to read or stop posting". I've suggested this multiple times already, in this thread, and I'm going to quote it again, because it was back on page 4:

To quell the rage, they're going to have to either:
a-Make it kills, not item turn-in This is no longer a good idea, refer to 95 cap fight
b-make Umbral Marrow / Mulcibar's Scoria drop from additional sources based on difficulty:
Arch Dynamis City boss: 1 Marrow
Arch Mainyu / Arch CC/Antaeus/AB: 3 marrow
Arch Diabolos: 5 marrow
Arch DL: 8 marrow

Tinnin/Sarameya/Khimaira(I forget the name haha): 1 Mulcibar
PW: 5 Mulcibar

the numbers of arch NM's should probably be higher to scale with difficulty/legwork involved, and some NM's could be added: Dynamis Lord for one.

[Mahoro]

So were left with relics, a currently proposed trial that forces 17 people to piss away a month of their own dynamis time, their own currency and/or missing AF2 and/or missing AF2-1 and/or forgotten item farming time, so someone can upgrade a relic to 99...in a fight that is ENTIRELY luck based, for ONE relic.

Many of the arguments I see regarding "forcing 17 people" to come to ADL assume that all of them enter Dyna everyday to do their own stuff, and thus they are "giving up 1-3 mill" in opportunity cost. While this may be true in many instances, I would submit that the people who are trying to farm 1-3 mill each day in Dynamis are by and large the people who are trying to obtain Relic/Mythic of their own. But there are plenty of people who aren't working on Relic/Mythic. And Forgotten can be purchased for pretty cheap nowadays. I personally have no need to step into Dyna except for Arch Boss fights and drops.

[Camiie]

Bottom line is an emp shouldn't cost more than a relic when it was sold to the public as a casual weapon for people who don't care to make FFXI a fulltime grinding operation yet with the current prices it will outpace a relic just to get two trials done. Ridiculous.

SE being SE can't even be arsed to make HMPs 100%/kill which would still require 1500 kills in Voidwatch to complete a trial or drive the prices out of the stratosphere.

So much this for me. SE isn't just now going off the deep end, they already did that with the preposterous 1500 HMP trial for Empyreans. Now they're going from real life mental instability to full on comic book super villain insanity.

As you say, Empyreans were supposed to be for the rest of us. I'm working on my first and probably only one now. I hoped it would be something I'd be able to complete, but I know that as things stand, that can never happen. It will never go past the level 90 stage. It could have if SE hadn't completely jumped the shark on trial difficulty for the 95 stage, but they did and right now it looks like there's no turning back.

Once I get to level 90 with my Empyrean what's left for me and those like me? I thought I would have a realistic means of advancement, but it seems I won't. They've put furthering our Empyreans out of reach, and Mythics were always that way. Level 75 relics are more obtainable than they used to be, but then many of us will run into a wall just as with our Empyreans.

Is SE cool with someone like me feeling stuck? Would they like us to see nothing but unreachable goals and decide to leave the game? Would they like us to resort to RMT? Digging 1500 plates and 60 rift whatevers out of the trash dumpster known as Voidwatch is about as realistic a goal as winning rank 1 in the Mog Bonanza. Buying them would require many of us to win said rank 1 Mog Bonanza more than once.

I'm just trying to warn you SE, that the direction you're going in will backfire. Your goal is to keep people around, but you're doing anything but.

[Ravenmore]

Many of the arguments I see regarding "forcing 17 people" to come to ADL assume that all of them enter Dyna everyday to do their own stuff, and thus they are "giving up 1-3 mill" in opportunity cost. While this may be true in many instances, I would submit that the people who are trying to farm 1-3 mill each day in Dynamis are by and large the people who are trying to obtain Relic/Mythic of their own. But there are plenty of people who aren't working on Relic/Mythic. And Forgotten can be purchased for pretty cheap nowadays. I personally have no need to step into Dyna except for Arch Boss fights and drops.

Again thats still you. How many people refuse to go back into dyna at all after grinding it for years for their northlands (hi rdms/thfs) AF2. All things come into play when trying to talk 17 other people into doing something as been pointed out with just trying to get 3 to 5 people to do the limit break. Wonder why its hard to do that people get tired of doing it over and over for no reward. The shadow items are not enough to get people to waste their time for a spot in waiting in line/lotting for them for a high chance of coming out the other side with nothing.

[Kimble]

Atoreis pretty much said in his first post he doesnt want us to whine about the relic trial stage 1 because hes scared that SE will also change the empy stage 1 trial due to "balance". We told him thats the risk he took for buying those items early.

Now hes just trying to backpeddle and save face.

[Prothscar]

Empyreans would cost, with 60 dross/cinder for basic and 3,000 for afterglow, assuming 1.5m dross/cinder which is in the middle of the high/low, and 100k per plate:

240,000,000 for the basic 99 trial (+5 stat and +10~25 base damage depending on the weapon)

4,650,000,000 for the afterglow


How is that reasonable Atoreis.

Hint: it isn't.

Btw, if curious, if each cinder/dross cost 3m, it'd cost 9,150,000,000. Nine billion gil. The difference between, using Ukonvasara as an example, a lv90 weapon and 99 weapon is 7% DoT.

[Nynja]

you cant really guage a value for dross/cinder now because the trial isnt even out, and come next patch the next chapter of VW will be out...those items may drop in greater quantity.

all u have now is dumdums rushing to get their 5 minutes of fame for being ZOMGFIRST