Ok...let me level with you here SE...

[Anewie]

What kind of 5 year olds do you babysit where the leader actually has to do more than say "Okay, here's the monster. Kill it."?

As usual, you're delusional if you think that's all there is to leading a LS.

But considering what type of shell you run/ran, I can level with you and laugh.

Leading and organizing events in a successful active linkshell amongst larger groups is much more than "here u go guyz! KILL THIS!".

Running a shell is hard work, and no one who was a leader or officer in any decent shell will disagree. That stuff can be very annoying.

[Greatguardian]

As usual, you're delusional if you think that's all there is to leading a LS.

But considering what type of shell you run/ran, I can level with you and laugh.

Leading and organizing events in a successful active linkshell amongst larger groups is much more than "here u go guyz! KILL THIS!".

Running a shell is hard work, and no one who was a leader or officer in any decent shell will disagree. That stuff can be very annoying.

The type of shells I run and ran? I'd like to know what internet detective Anewie thinks she knows about my linkshells, lulz.

Running a shell is only hard work if you let it become hard work. If you straddle along a bunch of retards who need everything explained to them in detail before every single event, then you should just /breaklinkshell and get new peeps. See, when you have a shell pull of intelligent, capable players who know what's up, you don't need to tell them much of anything. Everyone's already on the same page. Maybe you should try being in a shell with intelligent people for a change, you might learn something.

What? You think managing drops is super hard? Dealing with everyone's baw baw problems got you down? Not my problem. If your members can't conduct themselves like adults, and you can't handle them, then you just aren't cut out for leadership.

Leading in every shell I've ever run has always been a volunteer matter. It's a bit of extra work for no extra pay and if that's a problem people are always free to stop being a sack. No harm, no foul. Shit's just not that hard, boo.

[Anewie]

The type of shells I run and ran? I'd like to know what internet detective Anewie thinks she knows about my linkshells, lulz.

Running a shell is only hard work if you let it become hard work. If you straddle along a bunch of retards who need everything explained to them in detail before every single event, then you should just /breaklinkshell and get new peeps. See, when you have a shell pull of intelligent, capable players who know what's up, you don't need to tell them much of anything. Everyone's already on the same page. Maybe you should try being in a shell with intelligent people for a change, you might learn something.

What? You think managing drops is super hard? Dealing with everyone's baw baw problems got you down? Not my problem. If your members can't conduct themselves like adults, and you can't handle them, then you just aren't cut out for leadership.

Leading in every shell I've ever run has always been a volunteer matter. It's a bit of extra work for no extra pay and if that's a problem people are always free to stop being a sack. No harm, no foul. Shit's just not that hard, boo.

It's subjective. Running a shell is hard work to me and many others. You can disagree, that's cool. It's you opinion and I don't mean to be rude but honestly.. GIf you honestly think, running a larger scale, sccessful, active ls is so easy, then you should have no problem too be honest. But I already know you're frontin.

Running an abyssea group (or a linkshell as you would call it) doesn't in my opinion count as making and running a real linkshell. Sorry booboo. You don't know and probably could never had run a larger scale endgame LS.

If running a endgame ls was SO EASY I wonder why more didn't do it? Because counting attendance, points, scheduling, gathering and dealing with people takes PATIENCE and HARD WORK. And surprise, yes you have to explain strats sometimes! You lead an abyssea LS. LOL at that counting.

As for Aerith, as i said to GG, you're being delusional. THAT is work and requires patience and dedication. If it's so easy.. Why did so many starting their own endgame ls at 75 bomb? Because people dont have the time or patience to deal with running it.

Running a freakin abyssea LS does not really count... U dont need a LS for abyssea... Ugh.. Why is this so hard to understand that isn't really large scale ls content?

[Greatguardian]

It's subjective. Running a shell is hard work to me and many others. You can disagree, that's cool. It's you opinion and I don't mean to be rude but honestly.. GIf you honestly think, running a larger scale, sccessful, active ls is so easy, then you should have no problem too be honest. But I already know you're frontin.

Running an abyssea group (or a linkshell as you would call it) doesn't in my opinion count as making and running a real linkshell. Sorry booboo. You don't know and probably could never had run a larger scale endgame LS.

If running a endgame ls was SO EASY I wonder why more didn't do it? Because counting attendance, points, scheduling, gathering and dealing with people takes PATIENCE and HARD WORK. And surprise, yes you have to explain strats sometimes! You lead an abyssea LS. LOL at that counting.

As for Aerith, as i said to GG, you're being delusional. THAT is work and requires patience and dedication. If it's so easy.. Why did so many starting their own endgame ls at 75 bomb? Because people dont have the time or patience to deal with running it.

Running a freakin abyssea LS does not really count... U dont need a LS for abyssea... Ugh.. Why is this so hard to understand that isn't really large scale ls content?

Lulz. You're really grasping for straws. I've never lead a linkshell for Abyssea. In fact, it's probably the only thing I haven't lead a linkshell for. Why would anyone need a linkshell for Abyssea?

You sound like someone who's used to dealing with some godawful members. Attendance is hard? Points are hard? Herp derp I can count to potato and put a number in a spreadsheet. Scheduling? Gathering? God forbid, job selection? Open notepad, it takes 2 minutes. Hell, back at 75 I was perfectly capable of saying "Make some parties and don't be stupid", and people would do it without any other instruction.

Try recruiting mature adults instead of teenagers and "adults" with the mentality of a high school girl sometime and you'll find that it's a night and day difference. Of course, it takes a good leader to attract real talent. Most linkshells fail because 1) Most of the good talent already has a home, 2) Most of FFXI's playerbase is woefully immature, and 3) Most leaders just aren't that good at it.

My rules were simple. I don't care who's screwing who, who dislikes who, or what you do in your free time. Don't give me a headache and don't let your girl's locker room drama interfere with my events and you're golden. Respect in = Respect out.

[Anewie]

Lulz. You're really grasping for straws. I've never lead a linkshell for Abyssea. In fact, it's probably the only thing I haven't lead a linkshell for. Why would anyone need a linkshell for Abyssea?

You sound like someone who's used to dealing with some godawful members. Attendance is hard? Points are hard? Herp derp I can count to potato and put a number in a spreadsheet. Scheduling? Gathering? God forbid, job selection? Open notepad, it takes 2 minutes. Hell, back at 75 I was perfectly capable of saying "Make some parties and don't be stupid", and people would do it without any other instruction.

Try recruiting mature adults instead of teenagers and "adults" with the mentality of a high school girl sometime and you'll find that it's a night and day difference. Of course, it takes a good leader to attract real talent. Most linkshells fail because 1) Most of the good talent already has a home, 2) Most of FFXI's playerbase is woefully immature, and 3) Most leaders just aren't that good at it.

My rules were simple. I don't care who's screwing who, who dislikes who, or what you do in your free time. Don't give me a headache and don't let your girl's locker room drama interfere with my events and you're golden. Respect in = Respect out.

please GG.You are not folling nobody.

Lol at your "linkshell" counting as a large scale endgame ls. Aww honey, bless your heart1 (aka B**c, please)

Running a ls that did sky,sea,einherjar,various hnms,dynamis 5 days a week. Yeas that took work and patience and im sure leaders of the legendary endgame shells back at 75 would agree.

It makes much more sense when you know who GG was before abyssea. Lolz. W.e im done arguing with u. Ur ls was so amazing gg! And it was SO EASY to lead too.

Because ACLARITY AND WINGSOFVANADIEL were SO AMAZING, SO PROACTIVE, SO ELITE! right GG?
AMIRITE? Lol, bless ur heart booboo

edit: yeah most ls leaders have IT EASY! AND THEYRE NOT EVEN ANY GOOD. gtfo. Its an embarrasment to the hard working shellleaders who did well by their members w.o taking advantage of them. U go around spouting bs about how easy their jobs were and how theyre still not any good. I could hav been the most hated player in xi, but at least im not a joke player kidding myself into the thought that i was so amazing and leading was so easy. dude ur ls was never that good, u were never that good and that hasnt changed since abyssea. its just no one cares how good u are now and u can sit down trying to front. ur ls was never large scale and you know it. so stop lyin.

[Alerith]

please GG.You are not folling nobody.

Lol at your "linkshell" counting as a large scale endgame ls. Aww honey, bless your heart1 (aka B**c, please)

Running a ls that did sky,sea,einherjar,various hnms,dynamis 5 days a week. Yeas that took work and patience and im sure leaders of the legendary endgame shells back at 75 would agree.

It makes much more sense when you know who GG was before abyssea. Lolz. W.e im done arguing with u. Ur ls was so amazing gg! And it was SO EASY to lead too.

Because ACLARITY AND WINGSOFVANADIEL were SO AMAZING, SO PROACTIVE, SO ELITE! right GG?
AMIRITE? Lol, bless ur heart booboo

edit: yeah most ls leaders have IT EASY! AND THEYRE NOT EVEN ANY GOOD. gtfo. Its an embarrasment to the hard working shellleaders who did well by their members w.o taking advantage of them. U go around spouting bs about how easy their jobs were and how theyre still not any good. I could hav been the most hated player in xi, but at least im not a joke player kidding myself into the thought that i was so amazing and leading was so easy. dude ur ls was never that good, u were never that good and that hasnt changed since abyssea. its just no one cares how good u are now and u can sit down trying to front. ur ls was never large scale and you know it. so stop lyin.

This is one of the most pathetic and childish posts I have seen in such an argument. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

And no good leader from back in the day is going to say it was hard. What they are going to say is that they had a good group of officers to help manage the shell.

It's only hard if you're incapable, incompetent, or both.

[Anewie]

This is one of the most pathetic and childish posts I have seen in such an argument. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

And no good leader from back in the day is going to say it was hard. What they are going to say is that they had a good group of officers to help manage the shell.

It's only hard if you're incapable, incompetent, or both.

Again, its subjective. I find leading to be hard work. Many others do, and id venture to say any leader or officer of any of the big name hnm or endgame LS will agree that leading can be and is hard work. Is that saying it isnt fun and is a miserable experience? No. Is that to say it's impossible? No.

If you HONESTLY believe you could have easily lead a group of people the way EXCELLENCE, DEMO, BLUE GARTR did back at 75, not only are u FoS, but as I said before, quite delusional. Why would I be mad? Lol, bless ur heart sweety.

No on said leading shells was hard.I said it was hard work, and that's not nessicarily the same thing. Absolute Virtue was hard, gathering members, managing points, managing drama, keeping track of attendance, getting people gathered, figuring out wtf and organizing a large scale endgame ls, takes, shock(!), patience, dedication and hard work.

Now u can trash talk and say the members were drama infested retards who couldnt play worth anything, but truth tea tastes like this: they did more, got more and had more fun than you probably ever did. And they didnt whine about it at the end of the day.

If you honestly think any large scale LS, that required persistence and hard work to keep the shell running on top, was due to "losers" ls members etc, I can really understand why GG would say that. The dude was and is a butt hurt mad baby who didnt accomplish much of anything until empyrean weapons came out.

Call me rude or childish if you want, but shell leaders work hard to make and run good shells. GG has no exp in that and has no right to trash any shell that was ever on top of their game. Their game being whatever they wanted to do. Saying if a leader works hard for their members must be because the members are childish and stupid, that's insulting,although true sometimes tbh (lol). Leaders and members both can work hard for their gears, but leaders do tend to do the more work. This argument started when I said a leader is typically more deserving of the first loot.

All argument aside, my point still stands. Leaders are deserving of being the first to reep the rewards of the more rare loot. Why? If you must argue using GGs very silly and delusional argument that leaders only need to work hard if their members suck or are childish (ludicrous lol), it still doesn't change my point. A LS leader is also the boss, the HBIC, the ringleader, the captain, the parent and architect of the group.

The point im trying to make is simply, who better deserve the first sponsorship or reward of a rare kind than the leader themself? The answer is no one in most cases.This argument isn't about being selfish, you're all selfish as players in a sense that you think the game should cater to you. If you think you deserve everything under the sun at the same rate and value of the people who are organizing and running the shell, you are selfish as well.

If you honestly think a leader is selfish and so undeserveing over you, gtfo and start ur own gd LS. Hello? Because its so easy right gg?^^ Oh, you're already a ls leader, one who doesnt need to work hard because ur members are so mature and elite and independant! Sorry I forgot.lol Bless ur heart

[Greatguardian]

please GG.You are not folling nobody.

Lol at your "linkshell" counting as a large scale endgame ls. Aww honey, bless your heart1 (aka B**c, please)

Running a ls that did sky,sea,einherjar,various hnms,dynamis 5 days a week. Yeas that took work and patience and im sure leaders of the legendary endgame shells back at 75 would agree.

It makes much more sense when you know who GG was before abyssea. Lolz. W.e im done arguing with u. Ur ls was so amazing gg! And it was SO EASY to lead too.

Because ACLARITY AND WINGSOFVANADIEL were SO AMAZING, SO PROACTIVE, SO ELITE! right GG?
AMIRITE? Lol, bless ur heart booboo

edit: yeah most ls leaders have IT EASY! AND THEYRE NOT EVEN ANY GOOD. gtfo. Its an embarrasment to the hard working shellleaders who did well by their members w.o taking advantage of them. U go around spouting bs about how easy their jobs were and how theyre still not any good. I could hav been the most hated player in xi, but at least im not a joke player kidding myself into the thought that i was so amazing and leading was so easy. dude ur ls was never that good, u were never that good and that hasnt changed since abyssea. its just no one cares how good u are now and u can sit down trying to front. ur ls was never large scale and you know it. so stop lyin.

lol wat. Wings was always a social shell that I took over after a friend quit. Or does ElectricMayhem not count now? Probably not, considering it did, you know, everything that you mentioned.

I don't need to front. The endgame scene on my server knows me. They've known me for a long time. You're just some piss-poor leader who feels the need to shove her self-pity on everyone else and demand priority on crap because "leading's hard work, guys".

Yeah, right. The FFXI population figured that scheme out years ago. Leaders in a competent shell don't innately deserve jack shit. Praise? Sure. Props? Sure. Respect? Sure. Higher pay? Naw, son.

[Anewie]

lol wat. Wings was always a social shell that I took over after a friend quit. Or does ElectricMayhem not count now? Probably not, considering it did, you know, everything that you mentioned.

I don't need to front. The endgame scene on my server knows me. They've known me for a long time. You're just some piss-poor leader who feels the need to shove her self-pity on everyone else and demand priority on crap because "leading's hard work, guys".

Yeah, right. The FFXI population figured that scheme out years ago. Leaders in a competent shell don't innately deserve jack shit. Praise? Sure. Props? Sure. Respect? Sure. Higher pay? Naw, son.

I'm not even a leader an endgame LS. Lol, my whole point was and still is, leader tend to work hard in thos bigger endgame shells, especially back at 75. And yes I agree they deserved priority on sponsorship and the rarer drops, not because they are the leaders by name, but because they are the leaders by action and example. I know you don't like me, I don't like you, but you need to realize what you're saying. You're essentially saying no leader deserve priority over other member because they are the leader. But who has more dedication and time spent helping the ls than a leader? Heres a question, why WOULDN'T a leader be more deserving a member?

You're missing the whole point in that leaders tend to be more dedicated than members, and yes they do tend to work harder. You're delusional if you think otherwise. Now, maybe in your nonexistant endgame LS,m you and the other leaders don't really need to do much of anything or work hard, but there were plenty of HNM and endgame LS leaders that proudly and honestly did a lot to keep the shells runnin on top.

Your basically saying that's not true and if it is, they didn't deserve priority on relic sponsorship or things like DEFENDING RING, in which case, you're wrong, BUT I can understand why someone so LOL back at 75 would think that.

The simple fact is, you had and still don't have much of any idea of what it takes to run or have ran a biggger endgame LS. I may not have had a good reputation for being a nice little flower, but I know running an endgame LS took dedication and persistence, and who are you to say what a LS leader doesn't deserve? You could argue I have no right to say what they do deserve, but who was the person sponsoring relic and getting those super rare drops: the leaders. Theres a reason for that and it's not necessarily because they were all greedy, self righteous gil hoarders.

[Alerith]

As for Aerith, as i said to GG, you're being delusional. THAT is work and requires patience and dedication. If it's so easy.. Why did so many starting their own endgame ls at 75 bomb? Because people dont have the time or patience to deal with running it.

You're trying to argue completely different points. Just because you don't have time or patience for something doesn't mean it's hard work.

Let's use Dynamis as an example and cut it down to the basics. First of all, if you don't have time or patience, you shouldn't be doing Dynamis anyways.

Now, what must the leader do in an old school Dynamis shell? Let's assume he isn't being a good leader and delegating some tasks to his officers. Schedule, Points, Hourglass, Bank, Drop-list, Website, Attendance, deal with /tells and such.

This is all busy work. There is no required skill to manage any of this. And if he IS being a good leader, he'll have three or four officers managing some of those tasks so that it ISN'T so time consuming.

Busy work =/= Hard work

And the fundamentally, running an old school dynamis shell and an abyssea shell are the exact same. The content may not require a full LS, but if you're taking one in to do things for multiple people...you know, the exact purpose of an event LS...then you need to deal with the exact same things as a dynamis shell. Attendance, bank, points, blah blah blah.

Pulling a "lol abyssea doesn't count" argument is completely childish.