Ok...let me level with you here SE...

[Raksha]

Let me know whens the last time you found Umbral items for sale...

I'm sure you can find someone to merc you some.

And besides, when they start selling for 10M+ each i'm sure the supply will increase

[Insaniac]

Why not just buy the DL items?

I mean really, it doesn't seem all that bad.

If you changed it to killshot requirements then you'd have alliances with like 12 aegis PLD and 6 dual boxed whms.

Good luck killing arch DL with that

You really think people will sell them? There is no other reason to do ADL. No one is spamming ADL for sagasingers. People who kill ADL will be killing it for the upgrade item in other words no one will ever sell them. Considering you need 18~ people to kill ADL and 1 person can make an easy mil+ in their own solo dynamis run no one will do this for gil unless they can sell them for 20mil each.

[Nynja]

I've done the math in another thread...they'll be selling for 20 mil each minimum to be worthwhile. 400 mil to upgrade your relic from 95 to 99, YAAAAAY

[abbazabba]

Also, along with the addition of the trials, we will be increasing the amount of zeni you receive when trading soulplates to the ZNM NPC Sanraku.

Will you also remove the 10 plates a day limit? you must either allow us to get enough zeni for atleast a t1 and a t2 so we have something to do for the one hour we have to wait or you have to remove the limit. I don't feel you will allow us to get 300 per plate. So I would prefer the cap was removed.

• Stage 1　※The number of items required for upgrade is temporary.
  <table width="580" border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="1" class="ta01"><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="th01"><td width="50%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Weapon Classification</td><td width="50%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Trial Information</td></tr><tr valign="middle" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">Relic Weapons</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">Trial: Retrieve a set quantity of the assigned item.<br>Objective: 20 Umbral Marrow</td></tr><tr valign="middle" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">Mythic Weapons</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb"> Trial: Retrieve a set quantity of the assigned item. <br>Objective: 10 Mulcibar’s Scoria</td></tr><tr valign="middle" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">Verethragna/Almace/Farsha/Redemption/Rhongomiant/Masamune/Gandiva/Daurdabla</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3"> Trial: Retrieve a set quantity of the assigned item. <br>Objective: 60 Riftcinder</td></tr><tr valign="middle" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">Twashtar/Caladbolg/Ukonvasara/Kannagi/Gambanteinn/Hvergelmir/Armageddon/Ochain</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb"> Trial: Retrieve a set quantity of the assigned item. <br>Objective: 60 Riftdross</td></tr></table>

Personally I feel these are all to much to want a player to do for a small stat increase. I'm not saying they aren't doable or that people wont do them. I know they will in fact. People bought the 1500 plates for a tiny increase.

Relics will take a minimum of 20 days for most people. ADL requires a perfect defense zerg strategy that means one kill for one marrow per day. you can easily farm 2-3 sets after you kill ADL but you can't do him twice in a row. That's 2/3 a month per person requiring 18 people to not do any other dynamis. Many people make their gil selling currency so now they can't make gil or can't upgrade their relic. This is all for one person. I feel killing him 20 times would be much better. If you don't go with kills I would make it 10 umbra.

The time required to make 10 PW is 220 hours of just getting and turning in pictures currently. You did say you were lowering it though. Tack on say 10-20 more to kill everything. Its vastly easier to kill then ADL as well. Mythic's cost more then Relics in the begining and have worse trials. Don't know why they have an easier trial this time. I would bump this up to 20 kills but if you don't go with kills I would leave it alone.

Empyreans are shafted again. I understand they are easier to make and for the most part have better ws. But you seem to think that people did all 175 items to get to 90 by farming them. I know most people pay for a lot of the pop items. You're also most likely brewing some of the kills. i brewed 4 at a time for all my 90 items. 1500 plates
costs the same as a relic but the supply is to small. You should have added heavy metal to all of jeuno 2 and pouches to tier 6. The Rift cinder / dross should be lowered to 10 or make it 50 kills of flan and ogre. At current prices they are 300k on most servers making empyreans more expensive then mythics to take to 99.

• Stage 2　※The number of items required for upgrade is temporary.
  <table width="580" border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="1" class="ta01"><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="th01"><td width="50%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7"> Weapon Classification </td><td width="50%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7"> Trial Information </td></tr><tr valign="middle" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">Relic Weapons</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3"> Trial: Retrieve a set quantity of the assigned item. <br>Objective: 1,000 Umbral Marrow</td></tr><tr valign="middle" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">Mythic Weapons</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb"> Trial: Retrieve a set quantity of the assigned item. <br>Objective: 500 Mulcibar’s Scoria</td></tr><tr valign="middle" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">Verethragna/Almace/Farsha/Redemption/Rhongomiant/Masamune/Gandiva/Daurdabla </td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3"> Trial: Retrieve a set quantity of the assigned item. <br>Objective: 3,000 Riftcinder</td></tr><tr valign="middle" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">Twashtar/Caladbolg/Ukonvasara/Kannagi/Gambanteinn/Hvergelmir/Armageddon/Ochain </td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb"> Trial: Retrieve a set quantity of the assigned item. <br>Objective: 3,000 Riftdross</td></tr></table>

All of these are unreasonable. Personally I would make the relic and mythic 50 and the empyrean 100.

SE doesn't seem to grasp mmo game design. They have no idea what a quality of life issue is. Their riding the dieing wave of first generation time = difficulty. Their risk vs reward is quite possibly the worst. I don't know what to say I guess ffxi was a fluke that it was so superior to other first generation mmos. They haven't adapted as well as everquest. The only other still relevent first generation mmo.

[Creelo]

Why not just buy the DL items?

I mean really, it doesn't seem all that bad.

If you changed it to killshot requirements then you'd have alliances with like 12 aegis PLD and 6 dual boxed whms.

Good luck killing arch DL with that

This is a wrong, horrible post... You realize that Umbral Marrow (if it is sold) is probably going to be selling for 10-20 MILLION gil EACH, possibly even more?

Oh sure, that doesn't seem all that bad.

If you haven't fought Arch DL, seen Arch DL be fought, or don't understand the premise behind fighting Arch DL, then please, don't post your thoughts about how you feel this trial "doesn't seem all that bad," because you don't have a clue.

And for clarification, we mean "Kills" as in everyone with a relic would be receiving credit for the "Kill." I know people are intending for "Killshot" to mean the same thing, but I kinda feel like "Killshot" sort of implies killing something with just one weapon, or with a weaponskill, and I don't want SE or the Dev. Team to get the wrong idea... (inb4 20 ADL Killshots with Mercy Stroke!) >.<

[Babygyrl]

This is doable for "most" relic owners? Ha.. Good one!! Not a chance.... this is terrible seriously.. This is not going t okeep people around.. this is going to make people quit..

[Soidisant]

The only way 20 ADL items is going to be reasonable is if the changes to AoE damage make it feasible to kill him without PD and so allow you to kill 3-4 per run. And even then it's going to be a huge PITA.

At the minute there's 15 Relics in my LS and I am absolutely certain that not a single one of them will upgraded if the trial remains as is. It's just not feasible for us to kill 300+ ADL as a LS and it would never be fair to focus on a single persons relic with that sort of backlog.

No LS is going to want to go in daily. Christ, I get maybe 3-4 hours a day free time on working days and no way am I booking up 2 hours a day for 80% of the next year just to upgrade my Apoc + Ragnarok along with everyone elses relic in the LS. I'd be basically playing solely to upgrade Relics from 95 > 99 if we went down that route and I imagine it would be the same for a lot of people in my LS and a lot of other LS'es out there.


It's says a lot when I'd rather do the 10 PW items, 60 Riftdross and 60 Riftcinder combined rather than the just 20 Umbral Marrows. Because in all honesty, I think the Mythic and both Empy trials combined are still overall easier than the 20 Umbral Marrows. Would take longer for 1 individual weapon but overall it would be easier as you wouldn't be limited by 1 ADL per day and needing so many people to safely/consistently kill plus those people also have to forego their Dyna entry for the day.

[Geabrielle]

First of all, thank you for taking the time and consideration to actual LOWER the number of required items in the first place. In comparison to the old trial numbers this is a breath of relief and I thoroughly applaud the information. Thank you Camate, thank you every much for bearing the brunt of a frustrated player base.

Yes, these are still ridiculous trials but at this stage in the game I expect ridiculous trials. These are the FINALs, friends, the end of the road and it's mean to be this epic. So feel free to rage quit, feel free to hollar about it like and completely forget the fact that you are supposed to be veteran players of FF11 NOT some pansy WoW player who wants to be epic in 5 minutes and throws a tantrum.

This is a GAME, its supposed to be a time sink of varying degrees based upon the flavor of the player's disposition. Feel free to go on a rage and flame fit now, if you wish. I'm adult enough not to care. Send all mail to whineyflamingbabies@wambulance.mail.com.

Good eve.

[Urteil]

SE finally proves it is retarded.

[Babygyrl]

You guys actually want the FINAL trial to take only a week? I agree with SE on the amounts shown for V1. V2 is insane though.

To put it Bluntly YES, it takes enough Time to build the thing from scratch to begin with it still takes at least months to build the relic from stage 1 up to 99, relic owners have done ENOUGH item collecting already. Emps you can build in a freaking week! and mythics requirements are just ridiculous period so thats another story. Relic Owners do not want to do any more item collecting! They should make the last trial fun, Enjoyable and Doable in a reasonable amount of time.These are clearly NOT. Hell all of them should.